Dimensioning 10/4 lumber for bench build...How to go about it?

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

Preface: Those that love BLO and are satisfied with the results will not read this post through to the end, and will misunderstand it entirely. It always happens on the subject of BLO. Almost like a psychosis. "Group Think" is what the psychologists call it, I think. If that is you, you are not interested in alternative solutions, and cannot provide informed input to this post, so please stop reading now, close it, and go talk with your shop cat.

There are alternatives to BLO. I can share one that was taught to me by a professional gunstock maker. I have yet to find a better or more durable method.

BLO was used for centuries to finish everything from gunstocks, to fine furniture, to house siding. It was really the only thing available. Linseed oil comes from pressed flax seeds. Flax was cultivated for oil, and for fibers to produce "linen" (poor people could not afford imported cotton or luxurious wool, beyond homespun). One would apply it, let it soak in, and rub it out, polishing the wood in the process. This is where the term "hand-rubbed finish" comes from. The gunmakers of London England were famous for this technique and the beautiful results obtained. This is the famous "London Finish" that people paid lots of money for. It took literally months of handwork to accomplish.

But BLO is not very protective, and not at all durable, and must be replenished at least annually if it is to do its job, and maintain its appearance. And because BLO never fully hardens (polymerizes), does not actually physically seal the grain, and is photo-reactive and darkens over time, it attracts dust and dirt pulling it into the wood's fibers. The end result is a fragile finish that does not provide real protection against moisture or dirt, and gets dirtier and darker as time passes. Notice the condition of even well-maintained old gunstocks and high-end furniture finished with BLO.

And it adds a sickly yellow tone to the wood.

The custom gunmakers of North America developed their own finishing techniques, surpassing the British long ago in creating durable, protective, and beautiful finishes. This is why no one hears anything about the once-famous London Finish anymore.

Here it is how to use if for workbenches.

Mix a good-quality synthetic-resin varnish 1:1 with a good quality thinner. Epiphanes is pricey, but the best I have found. Minwax sold at the Home Despot will work fine. NOT WATER BASED, so you poor guys in Californication that are hated by your corrupt government are SOL unless you bring some home in your car after a visit to Las Vegas or Reno.

Home Despot's cheapo thinner sucks.

Apply this thin mixture with a brush to the wood. Keep applying until it won't soak up anymore. Especially endgrain. Let it dry. Repeat until the wood won't soak anymore, and dried finish is standing on the wood. It will look ugly, but that is OK. The purpose of this is to cause the varnish to penetrate deeply into the grain and seal the wood fibers, preventing/reducing moisture transfer, and dirt/grime infiltration into the wood.

Using this same 1:1 mixture and 220 grit W/D sandpaper (calm down, sandpaper is our friend), wet sand the wood. Make sure to keep the surface very wet. Use rubber gloves. You want to create a slurry of wet finish and sawdust, and then force that slurry deep into the wood's surface, further sealing the grain and preventing/reducing moisture transfer and dirt/grime infiltration. Don't wipe off the slurry, but let it dry proud on the wood's surface. It will look as ugly as a mud fence, but that's OK.

Did the wood suck up a lot of the mixture when wet sanding the first time, or not? If it did, you want to repeat the wet sanding process. Remember to let the varnish/thinner/sawdust slurry dry on top of the wood's surface. Don't wipe it off yet.

Finally, wet sand one last time cutting down all the dried mixture and dried slurry on the wood's surface, and wipe it off completely before it gets sticky. When done, there should be no visible finish left on the wood (lots inside the wood, however). You can use 220 grit sandpaper, or go with progressively finer grits if you want a better final appearance. In the case of furniture, I finish with 600 grit.

This is the first step in the ancient and very expensive "London Finish" except you have replaced the never-fully-hardening and dirt-attracting and always-getting-darker BLO with a substance that penetrates as deeply as BLO, but actually provides durable and effective protection.

If you are making fine furniture or an expensive gunstock, you would next apply several coatings of thinned varnish on top of this, rubbing out each one until a deep, subtly lustrous surface finish is produced. Voila. It is a lot of work, and few have the patience, but if you can do a French finish, then you can do this.

But the sealing process, not the surface finish, is all that is required for a workbench.

The wood is now sealed beyond just the surface. The wood is now harder than it was prior to this process. There is nothing to chip or become damaged or make the workbench top slippery. The finish can easily be refreshed any time.

As a final touch, and to keep glue from sticking, I apply floor wax (Johnsons makes a good product) after the wood has dried for a week (it will out-gas thinner for some time). Don't use furniture wax: It will create a slippery surface. Floor wax is non-slip.

This process is simply the evolution of BLO as developed by professional finishers whose clients wanted better results than BLO could provide. Give it a try and show everyone what a real hand-rubbed finish should look like.

Coincidentally, I have finished a couple gunstocks and this method is pretty much what I was told to do by a very reputable stockmaker. I used Waterlox, which is thus far one of my favorite finishes. As far as protection goes, I can't imagine any piece of furniture needing more-or even as much-protection as an expensive piece of figured walnut that has 40-60 hours of handwork in it that is taken out for long walks through the woods and sometimes in harsh weather. So far the Waterlox-finished stocks have been just fine out in the rain and snow, so long as I dry them well afterward.

That all said, the wood does feel a bit different than if I used BLO. I made sure to brush on enough varnish to fill the pores (took multiple coats), sanded, and then hand-rubbed the last coats on. I think, by definition maybe, a film-building finish will inherently offer more protection than something like BLO that doesn't build a film. But it is the lack of film that gives BLO its particular feel. So the way I figured I really have to choose between a genuinely protective finish and the more-wood-like tactility of an oil.

As for the finish recipe (is that the correct term?) you described, the one thing I can't decide on thus far is whether or not to sand with a slurry of sanding dust/finish. I didn't do that on the first gunstock I finished because I thought the sanding dust in the slurry would muddy the figure and pores of the wood. I wanted the finish to be as clear as possible. But after looking at finished stocks where people sanded with a slurry I honestly don't know if I can tell much of a difference.

And back to the subject of workbenches, I honestly didn't consider the idea of something as protective as a varnish on a workbench. After all, some folks recommend not finishing them at all. I don't like that idea myself but I figured whatever I do finish-wise it will be cheap, simple, and easily maintained/repaired. I assume at some point this bench is gonna get a little beat up, and I may have to flatten the top occasionally. Oil/varnish mixture is one idea. I wonder now, though, would a more protective finish that seals out moisture more effectively also make the bench more dimensionally stable?

[Stanley Covington]

Coincidentally, I have finished a couple gunstocks and this method is pretty much what I was told to do by a very reputable stockmaker. I used Waterlox, which is thus far one of my favorite finishes. As far as protection goes, I can't imagine any piece of furniture needing more-or even as much-protection as an expensive piece of figured walnut that has 40-60 hours of handwork in it that is taken out for long walks through the woods and sometimes in harsh weather. So far the Waterlox-finished stocks have been just fine out in the rain and snow, so long as I dry them well afterward.

That all said, the wood does feel a bit different than if I used BLO. I made sure to brush on enough varnish to fill the pores (took multiple coats), sanded, and then hand-rubbed the last coats on. I think, by definition maybe, a film-building finish will inherently offer more protection than something like BLO that doesn't build a film. But it is the lack of film that gives BLO its particular feel. So the way I figured I really have to choose between a genuinely protective finish and the more-wood-like tactility of an oil.

As for the finish recipe (is that the correct term?) you described, the one thing I can't decide on thus far is whether or not to sand with a slurry of sanding dust/finish. I didn't do that on the first gunstock I finished because I thought the sanding dust in the slurry would muddy the figure and pores of the wood. I wanted the finish to be as clear as possible. But after looking at finished stocks where people sanded with a slurry I honestly don't know if I can tell much of a difference.

And back to the subject of workbenches, I honestly didn't consider the idea of something as protective as a varnish on a workbench. After all, some folks recommend not finishing them at all. I don't like that idea myself but I figured whatever I do finish-wise it will be cheap, simple, and easily maintained/repaired. I assume at some point this bench is gonna get a little beat up, and I may have to flatten the top occasionally. Oil/varnish mixture is one idea. I wonder now, though, would a more protective finish that seals out moisture more effectively also make the bench more dimensionally stable?

Don't be lazy. Try it on a test piece. If you do it right, there should be NO varnish film on the surface.

NO FILM. NO FILM. NO FILM.

Read my post again, and pay attention this time.

[ernest dubois]

Such a sweeping statement writing off the use of linseed oil as a worthless wood finish, is to say the least a bold move in the face of the thousand year history it has going back to the Turks who were using it for that and more. Stan I think you take some of the things that make it particularly useful and superior, permeability I mentioned, the long curing, and because these may or may not, such subjectivity here, be compatible with finishing gun stocks, draw the conclusion that it therefore is not a good wood finish in general. Can this really be what you are saying? I find it incredible. Well, is it helpful to get into a point/counter-point confrontation especially when the parameters are so wide and varying? I don't think so, for example to me oil has no place on a workbench - I guess for all the standard reasons. My workbench is from Leif Karlsson and early on while he was building I asked him not to finish it with anything. In the meantime he forgot and put linseed oil on - the Swedes are big into it. On the bench surface the oil was gone with flattening and the rest took me about half a days work to scrape off. Look, there are places where it has no business and should not be used. I always regret to this day once finishing a tansu of Western Red Cedar and Douglas Fir with linseed oil but for a wall cabinet in cherry wood it is the one finish that lives with the piece and will improve with time and proper maintenance. Maybe this is key, the maintenance involved, not really suitable to the lifestyles and attitudes prevailing. I just finished hauling my front room empty of its contents to give the floor its yearly oiling. It means we don't use it for a week plus a significant tax on my back and knees. Still, in the end my floor will only improve over time rather than degrade from the moment the polyurethane dries.

[Stanley Covington]

Such a sweeping statement writing off the use of linseed oil as a worthless wood finish is to say the least a bold move in the face of the thousand year history it has going back to the Turks who were using it for that and more. Stan I think you take some of the things that make it particularly useful and superior, permeability I mentioned, the long curing, and because these may or may not, such subjectivity here, be compatible with finishing gun stocks, draw the conclusion that it therefore is not a good wood finish in general. Can this really be what you are saying? I find it incredible. Well, I find it unhelpful to get into a point/counter-point confrontation especially when the parameters are so wide and varying, for example I think the oil has no place on a workbench - I guess for all the standard reasons. My workbench is from Lief Karlsson and early on while he was building it I asked him not to finish it with anything. In the meantime he forgot and put linseed oil on - the Swedes are big into it. On the bench surface it was gone with flattening and the rest took me about half a days work to scrape off. Look, there are places where it has no business and should not be used. I always regret to this day once finishing a tansu of Western Red Cedar and Douglas Fir with it but for a wall cabinet in cherry wood it is the one finish that lives with the piece and will improve with time and proper maintenance. Maybe this is key, the maintenance involved, not really suitable to the lifestyles and attitudes prevailing. I just finished hauling my front room empty of its contents to give the floor its yearly oiling. It means we don't use it for a week plus a significant tax on my back and knees. Still, in the end my floor will only improve over time rather than degrade from the moment the polyurethane dries.

Not a sweeping statement. I explained the logic clearly, and supported that explanation with facts. You may find those facts unromantic, but that does not change measured results. Old does not mean superior, anymore than an oxcart is superior to a pickup truck in modern times. Please do your research before you use bold sweeping statements to dismiss my professional experience.

Or, are you by some chance a commercial finishings chemist and can produce a long-term technical study that substantiates your quaint theory that BLO provides superior protection to wood?

If you are so convinced of BLO's superiority, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and paint your house with it next time in the ancient manner instead of using a good latex paint, that is, if it does not take too much time away from thatching your roof.

[ernest dubois]

You discount a whole aspect of woodworking with a history of a thousand years, evidence to be seen by anyone in every museum only to rely on chemical studies, no questioning of impartiality of course, coming out of the industries own labs and the mouths of the very ones with an interest in self-promotion, and claim to have made a rational rebuttal. Ok, I give in, you win.
Here's my house, painted in linseed oil and pigment of my own making, top to bottom, inside and out.
You may say, but will it seal the wood off against water? Will it maintain its blindingly bright and chemically induced coloring?
No, it will not.
P3150219.jpg
DSCF2357.jpg

[William Fretwell]

With all due respect, while BLO does a better job of polymerizing than straight linseed oil, it does not qualify as a "drying oil." It only partially polymerizes. Professional tests have repeatedly proven it does not prevent moisture ingress/egress, or mitigate seasonal expansion/contraction.

In order to make linseed oil fully polymerize, metallic drying agents must be added. At this point it is no longer BLO, but a wood finish that contains linseed oil.

If you now add varnish to the linseed oil and drying chemical mixture, you have WATCO Danish Oil Finish. A good product, but still lacking IMO.

If the 'professional' tests are those the forestry people did on exterior decks and roofing tile then they are hardly applicable.
My BLO applications dry just fine, no tracking of oil. The non slip finish is most appropriate for a bench.
As for moisture, here in Canada is the worst place to be a piece of wood, at 5% in the winter to 100% in the summer. If you did protect something well such as a long board with varnish then the ends will dry on their own and induce cracking, better the whole thing moves.
It seems the most desirable finishes such as hand rubbed lacquer that show off wood or drying oil all offer the least protection. Seven coats of Epifanes varnish works on a boat, yes you can still see the wood, but you repeat it every 5 years! The 7 coats of teak oil on the decking last one year.
I covered a set of white cedar chairs with a good decking protectant as they were white like paper! That was 30 years ago, the moisture got in and was held by the finish to grow mould. Only when the finish degraded did the chairs improve to the natural grey. Note to self: never apply anything to white cedar!

[ernest dubois]

Coincidentally, and since it just so happens to be at hand, yesterday I made this picture of a house in Leiden, the oldest known dated to 14th century, that is the middle ages, when chemistry was in its infancy and the painters didn't even know it existed. Original linseed oil paint, holding up pretty well these past 700 years.IMG_20180302_140722763.jpg

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

Don't be lazy. Try it on a test piece. If you do it right, there should be NO varnish film on the surface.

NO FILM. NO FILM. NO FILM.

Read my post again, and pay attention this time.

Though I'd normally be lazy, because you went to the trouble of outlining a specific process, I'll give it a shot. I suppose I at least owe you that for your effort. Stay tuned for more!

[Pat Barry]

Though I'd normally be lazy, because you went to the trouble of outlining a specific process, I'll give it a shot. I suppose I at least owe you that for your effort. Stay tuned for more!

It would be great to see it side by side with BLO. Just thinking out loud ...

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

It would be great to see it side by side with BLO. Just thinking out loud ...

I can do that. It might not be on yellow pine since I don't have any scraps yet but I can figure something out.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, just curious. What would you use if you want a finish that doesn't build a film?

As far as protection goes I realize BLO is not much but thus far I haven't found anything that gives a similar tactility. Even the thin wiping varnishes, which I also really like, make a piece look and feel like it has a thin film of plastic over it, which I suppose it does. I've tried tung oil but honestly it doesn't seem to offer much that BLO doesn't.

Clean hand planed surfaces are in and of themselves a 'finish'. The surface is repellent to water considerably more-so than a sanded surface, so much that the Temple builders were satisfies with this finish alone. No film. I have no trouble leaving a surface bare after hand planing. Standing water will still damage this surface (IE a wet glass)

For a low build finish, I simply use an oil varnish and build it to the point where it begins to build then I stop. I do the same with shellac. Standing water still damages these surfaces.

If you need a truly water repellant finish then you need to look to modern technology, but Stan is a better guide in that area than myself. Standing water is a hard thing to protect against on wooden surfaces, a true film finish is needed....or contentious patrons. The same fellow who warned me away from BLO suggested using wipe-on poly and I believe it works well and provides a protection with a low build. I inherently dislike poly, but in some cases it's a worthwhile evil.

Those of you who follow my blog are aware I built a bar top for a kitchen this past fall. The homeowner and I thought a low-build finish would be great for the bar top...along with coasters. They were no match for thanksgiving dinner however, as I was made aware that two rings were left on the bar top....right next to the coasters.

[Pat Barry]

I can do that. It might not be on yellow pine since I don't have any scraps yet but I can figure something out.

That would be cool. I imagine that it might depend a lot on the actual material that it is used on. Mahogany, versus maple, versus ash versus pine might be completely different. I like the look of BLO on Ash and Cherry for example but I have not tried it on Mahogany / African Mahogany yet although I am considering it for a project

[ernest dubois]

I shouldn't question the grasp in general of what BLO is beyond a label, but still. Stanley has laid it out and I can accept his explanation, linseed oil that has been processed, and with the addition of siccatives, oxidizes much faster than pure linseed oil. What it is in practical terms is a sticky mess that will significantly yellow over time when exposed to air and light. For what it's worth, the siccatives which induce oxidation of the linseed oil are persistent heavy metals which science says are carcinogens.
There can be little point in an off the bat comparison once it's clear that the oil finish is less an event than it is a process.

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

Don't be lazy. Try it on a test piece. If you do it right, there should be NO varnish film on the surface.

NO FILM. NO FILM. NO FILM.

Read my post again, and pay attention this time.

Before I get started on this finish comparison:

1) Would Waterlox be okay as a varnish? Or would you lean away from it? I know it can be applied in the manner you described but I want to try this finish the way you outlined.
2) What thinner do you prefer? Normally I just use whatever mineral spirits I find at the crappy retail stores.

[Stanley Covington]

You discount a whole aspect of woodworking with a history of a thousand years, evidence to be seen by anyone in every museum only to rely on chemical studies, no questioning of impartiality of course, coming out of the industries own labs and the mouths of the very ones with an interest in self-promotion, and claim to have made a rational rebuttal. Ok, I give in, you win.
Here's my house, painted in linseed oil and pigment of my own making, top to bottom, inside and out.
You may say, but will it seal the wood off against water? Will it maintain its blindingly bright and chemically induced coloring?
No, it will not.
P3150219.jpg
DSCF2357.jpg

A beautiful home indeed. I admire your excellent taste and your devotion to traditional methods.

My objection to BLO is strictly functional. My posts were simply an effort to help those here at SMC understand the limitations of BLO, thereby helping them make wise choices. I hope you would do the same for me, Ernest, when I misunderstand or make uninformed decisions about woodworking.

I work in the commercial construction industry. A constant risk in this business is a designer specifying, or a Client requesting, a material that people mistakenly assume will provide a certain performance. It is traditional, you see, and has been used for centuries. Plaster, terrazzo, paint, paving materials, stone, etc. The craftsmen that produce/install the finish warn that certain unusual maintenance procedures are required, or that certain activities will damage the product, but the designer or Client do not understand or dismiss the disclaimers. In reality, the product does indeed provide the traditional performance, but not the performance the designer/client mistakenly expected.

Accusations, recriminations, threats, and lawsuits result. I have seen this too many times to count. The lawyers always make lots of money, while reputations and careers are destroyed. And all over misunderstandings, and unrealistic expectations.

I am going through this exact problem right now with a Client who was warned, received the formal disclaimer, but went ahead with the selection of materials/ method anyway because it is “ traditional.” But despite the warnings and disclaimers, they did not adjust their expectations, and would not accept the maintenance/ renewal requirements this material/ method entailed. Sadly, this client is extremely, very, amazingly cash-rich, and has many many lawyers on-staff all eager to beat up any perceived enemies.

In the end, the Client will lose this argument, but it could have all been avoided if people had made an effort to understand the risks and adjust their expectations.

Those who decide to use BLO would be wise to understand its limitations as well as its potential benefits, and adjust their expectations accordingly.

Once again, I applaud your excellent taste.

Stan