Here we go again, cyclone dust collectors, and a new entry too

[Eric Janson]

Hi All, I'm new to the Sawmill Creek community and just returned to the US from many years in Munich, and building a new house with a new WW shop. For dust collection, I'm considering 3HP Grizzly cyclone (HEPA), Laguna 3HP (HEPA) and a newbie about which I've not heard much, the (Chinese) Harvey G700 "Dust Processor." I don't need to run multiple machines at once but there will be some long metal duct runs, so inches of water SP and "real CFM" are important, also flitering the smallest (baddest) particles is a priority. I don't care about big collection capacity, I'll empty as often as needed. Quiet is a big bonus but I mistrust the dBA claims.
I have heard many questionable remarks about Laguna quality and customer service, and found lookalikes on Alibaba which offer to slap on Your Label. That's disquieting.
Grizzly has a solid if not refined rep.
The G700 "Dust Processor" has an intriguing design, but it's big, heavy, expensive and does not set its specs in familiar MERV, particle count percentages at 0.3 microns or other indicators which would indicate real CFM. The claimed 61dB at 3m would be revolutionary if true.
After that long intro: anyone have experiences with any of these three machines, and especially the newbie? Like all of you, I want to make an informed choice but comparisons are sometimes difficult, and real world reliability is not published.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Not any real help but Oneida seems to be the king in the US. Not sure how their models will compare price wise to your chosen manufacturers. I own a Woodsucker cyclone no longer made. Mine tends to pass on a lot of light dust to the filter when milling low density wood. A real pain. I have been using a lot of Spanish cedar and it does not separate well at all in my cyclone. My point is I believe there is protentialy quite a range of effectiveness of cyclones. It has been many years since I have seen any comparison testing performed.
I own a tiny Oneida dust deputy for my vacuum and it collects very very close to 100% of everything. My vacuum bag still looks almost new after 3 years. My point is that this Oneida unit is extremely well designed for its purpose so I would hope their big units are as well.

[David Kumm]

I don't believe the Harvey unit is a particularly high pressure system ( but check that out ) and with long runs you will need that. With long runs it is critical to get the pipe sizing correct in relation to both the impeller diameter and design as they are a killer on cfm if too small or velocity if too large. I would be more concerned about cfm than whether or not the filters are advertised as " Hepa ". A machine running wood creates a cloud of dust around it. ( Put a Dylos monitor on it and be shocked ). How well the cloud is contained at the machine and how quickly it is sucked into the port is most important. It won't be the filtered air that kills you, be the filters Hepa, Nano, Spun bond, or singed polyester felt. It is the air that doesn't get into the collector before you breathe some of it. All filters have an optimal cfm per sq inch and cause a pressure drop in the system which also affects cfm. Do your homework and consider all the variables rather than just hp and filter label. Don't forget the type and size of the machines you will be running. A 20" planer or a shaper need a whole lot more collector than a small table saw or jointer. Dave

[Josh Kocher]

I wouldn't worry about seeing similar machines of one or another in China because all the machines you are looking at come from a factory in China or Taiwan that manufacture for many sellers.

Anyway,... I don't know anything about those machines in particular... So I would second what Peter Kuhlman said and look at an Oneida cyclone. Certified performance, first world built, good service. Dust is all they do, and looking at the 3HP Grizzly system it seems the 3HP, even 5HP V series from Oneida is cheaper... It's a no-brainer what I would get.

[Peter Kelly]

Oneida will also design your duct system and evaluate which of their cyclones is appropriate for your needs: https://www.oneida-air.com/static.as...an_design.html

[Peter Kelly]

The Harvey G700 was discussed in the Workshop forum a while back - https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....Dust-Collector

[Rod Sheridan]

Eric, I've owned an Oneida cyclone for 17 years, it's a good unit however all cyclones have a separation problem with very fine dust, and the filter is a pain to clean.

It's really a pain when you don't empty the bin on time and the filter gets plugged solid.

Honestly, if I were to do it again I would buy a Felder RL collector.

They filter to 0.1mg/m3 which exceeds the present EU standard of 3mg/m3. The dust bin is easier to empty and the filters are easier to clean.

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

Dust collection questions have to get one of our more confusing array of answers. Some folks think a shop vac is a dust collector, some people just stand in their driveway or open their large door and call it good. Others consider any hint of a dust layer on anything totally unacceptable and go bonkers trying to eliminate it instead of doing some woodworking.

The real world often lands somewhere in between with your needs and use-model driving your satisfaction. If I ran a pro shop, dust collection would probably be close to, if not the, most expensive tool investment I had in the shop. For my one man shop I use a cyclone which does a reasonable job, shop vacs for high velocity offenders like the drill press and hand held power tools, an ambient cleaner to speed up whole-room clean up if I have been doing really messy things and a broom and dust pan for hand plane shavings and other powered-system-clogging-things.

What did you use in Bavaria? Did it meet your needs? What improvements do you want? I find my best recommendations come from my own experiences and the experiences of others. Throwing out random recommendations is not as helpful as things like (this is a real one) "I bought the 2HP Griz cyclone and wish I would've gotten the 3HP model". Rod's experience with the Oneida gives you some long term experience with the cyclone format. It always seems to come down to filters and how to keep them clean.

It may be that in Boulder you can vent outside. A cyclone to separate the big stuff and then venting the balance of the fine spoil outside would be my perfect world. Dad gets to do this and I am very jealous.

[Ole Anderson]

Eric, welcome to the Creek!!!

[Art Mann]

The cost competitive Oneida machines (V-series) all appear to be made of plastic.

[Jim Becker]

The cost competitive Oneida machines (V-series) all appear to be made of plastic.

Yes, they've come up with a static-free material that provides a lower cost to manufacture for their V-Series (and SDD). It makes it more affordable for hobbyist woodworkers to get a well engineered, long-cone cyclone dust collection system and helps them compete with the mass-market cyclones that have become more popular in recent years. They claim some sound deadening properties for the material they are using, too, which is nice for folks with their shops in their homes, such as in basements.

[Scott Buehler]

I think it would be helpful for everyone to comment on the type they are using and weather they work well, or not...especially if they were one of the 3 that the op asked about. Don't get me wrong, there is some good advice and info if these replies, but why not give real experiences with your machines? I have never personally had a cyclone dc myself, and am also contemplating the grizzly, jet, and Oneida...so replies on these or similar machines would be nice to actually hear about

[Jim Becker]

I've owned two cyclones; both Oneida. The first was one of the early 1.5hp units which was ok when my shop was small...it's still in nearly daily operation in a friend's shop. When I added the larger machines, especially the J/P, I needed a bigger more capable system. I moved up to a 2hp Oneida Commercial which just predates the Gorilla series coming out. It feels and performs like it's bigger than it is. I actually drove to Syracuse to the factory to pick it up and see how they were manufactured. USA-made and fan curves that can be believed.

I don't have any experience with any of the units in the OP's first post. I will admit I'm not a fan of "short cone" cyclones, pardon the pun, as I don't believe they are anywhere as good at separation as the longer cone designs are. The long cone is an important premise of the person so many folks quote as a cyclone DC expert, too.

[Eric Janson]

Thanks all, for the thoughtful responses.
Peter, thanks -– I guess I need to add Oneida to my list of possible solutions. RE effectiveness of one cyclone vs. the other, I have seen anecdotal references that the column height plays a role, e.g., longer is better. The Harvey product literature indicates that the rotational velocity plays a serious role, too -– they claim to separate 99.9% of all the particulates ahead of the fine filter. To me, aero engineering is a world beyond (electronics nerd that I am) so I tend to nod my head and say uh- huh if someone seems to know what they are saying in these realms…. I, too, would love a serious comparison of cyclones with real- world ducting and a 52" Viet three stage belt sander feeding them. I'’ll check out the Oneida ductwork calc bits too, good advice. In the meantime I ran into the dust collection blog from Bill Pentz which has lots a great info in detail.
David, very good point about being able to suck up the dust cloud in / around the machine, or else it won'’t matter whether it's a HEPA or a paper bag at the outflow end. But assuming the collector can suck in that cloud, the end filter then becomes more important. And I guess I need to invest in a Dylos. They have (among others) a basic model for around $200 and a “pro” model, maybe half again as much. Which one do you use? Any recommendations as to which one is most suited to WW?
Rod, the Felder RL series was not in my sights at first. Compared to the Grizzly GO441HEP, the Felder RL140 is slightly less performance at double the price (although much quieter.) And the Felder RL looks – pardon me – like a descendent of the Tin Man ;-) However I have great respect for Felder (awaiting delivery of an FB610 bandsaw and a K700SP slider). I do put performance over looks. And if anyone out there understates what they do, Felder is in that small group. Maybe I should consider one of the RL units. Do you have experience with one of them?? BTW, Harvey claims to filter to 0.05mg/m3, ca. half of the Felder claim, but there is so little real review info on the Harvey that I have to take their claims with a grain or two.
Glenn, sadly in Bavaria I was not woodworking, a situation I am now remedying. As for questions about which is better, drinking Bavarian Weissbier in a Biergarten or woodworking, all queries will go unanswered ;-)
No outdoor dust venting here in Boulder. Lucky to get away with a clothesline (only because it's nonpoluuting.) I got a woodstove from Finland (Bari) that luckily is allowed to operate without a cat converter. There are no house tear- downs allowed - you have to disassemble the house board by board and recycle it as far as possible. Beautiful place with lots of outdoor activities and great restaurants, but highly regulated! Pick your poison, I guess.

[David Kumm]

I have the Dylos that measures the smaller particles but I think either will give you a reference. Put it in the house or even in the garage and see how it goes up when you start a car to pull it out. Numbers can go from <100 to 20,000 when running machines.

You should join the Felder yahoo group as there have been many posts concerning the RL. There have been good and bad reviews and some design changes over the years to correct those. The larger units use a pulse jet auto cleaning system vs the manual brush of some smaller ones. Worth reading about. Dave