Sapele vs African Mahogany?

[Dave Cav]

I have used a fair amount of sapele and I'm generally pretty happy with the way it looks. However, right now it looks like where I am African Mahogany is cheaper, and I understand some people think it's a closer match to real mahogany. Any functional/visual differences worth noting?

[J.R. Rutter]

Khaya mahogany is what is typically sold as African mahogany. It usually has more shimmer to the ribbon grain, more depth. The color is more golden brown vs the more reddish chestnut brown of Sapele. Khaya doesn't smell nice like Sapele when cut. It is a little less dense and has more tension lurking in the lumber. Rips will often twist or bow in opposite directions. Wind checks or checks from felling the trees creat cracks across the grain pretty frequently.

So I think satisfaction or preference depends on what you use it for. For me making cabinet doors, I don't warranty Khaya for flatness.

[peter gagliardi]

There is a reason the Sapele is more. It is a superior product for stability and workability. The African I have seen and used the couple times it was spec'ed was horrendous. Way too much reaction wood.
I know some have gotten good quality, well behaved African, but I believe that is far and away the exception.
My personal opinion is that African- at least the stuff we get here, is useful- as a firestarter.
If you are looking for something similar to try to price differentiate, try asking for Sipo/Utile.
It is a bit darker brown/red than Sapele, and I think it works even better. Cost is usually less than Sapele.

[Wade Lippman]

I've used some African and it has all been fine. Can't compare it to sapele or utile, as I haven't used those; but have no problems with African.

Interesting thing is that African is REAL mahogany; American is the imitation. When African slaves were brought over, they call the trees they saw mahogany after the similar trees they knew from Africa. Of course, in this case the imitation is generally superior to the real.

[Jim Becker]

I don't believe you could use them interchangeably in a project, but you could certainly use them independently in separate projects...understanding that the end result may not look the same. Sapele has its own look...I like it a lot. I've not used anything else outside of "genuine" mahogany other than Sapele, personally. It runs about $7.50/bd ft here.

[Joe Calhoon]

Dave, The lifestyle is good here in Colorado and Utah but you will find we are in a desert when it comes to sourcing good Mahogany. Khaya is what most of the suppliers in Denver and SLC sell. At one time Siera Forrest Products sold a Khaya that was sawmilled in Italy and sorted for color. It was not bad but still not as good as Sapele or Sipo. In general it is terrible material as everyone above describes. The only companies that deliver here are Intermountain, National and Hardwoods. If I want Sapele it has to come common carrier. I don't think anyone here has Sipo.

MacBeth out of SLC used to deliver here. They could possibly have better mahogany. You have a advantage of being close enough to look.

I envy the East Coast shops that can call up Rex Lumber and get Sipo and Sapele in thickness up to 12 or 16/4.

[Dave Cav]

Thanks, Joe; that's what I'm finding out. I am close enough to SLC (65 miles) that I can drive down there occasionally. I have been to National a number of times for domestic woods, but all they have in Sapele is QS, which I find too busy for my projects. The ribbon grain can be overpowering. Sierra lists Sapele on their website, but doesn't say if it's QS or PS. I'm just going to have to take a trip down there and visit Sierra and McBeath and see what they have. I used to get all of my domestic stuff at Hardwood Ind, which was on the way home, and exotics at East Teak in Sultan, WA. They are one of the largest IMPORTERS of exotic lumber in the country, and they were three miles down the road from me. I could get any size of sapele, PS or QS for quite reasonable prices, plus wenge, teak, ipe, afromosia, you name it. I still could get lumber from them, but the last quote I got earlier this week was $320 to ship 110 B/F from WA to UT. I could almost drive back up there for the cost of shipping if you don't count my time. I should probably just take the trailer up there and get an entire unit of 4/4 sapele, a hundred feet or so of wenge and some other odds and ends, but I'm seriously out of storage space.

[J.R. Rutter]

Just want to say that in my experience, PS sapele is not as stable as the QS. We did one job for a guy who spec'd it and it milled flat, then twisted up as the mc changed. In Khaya, forgetaboutit...

Edinam is another African mahogany that I have used. It is med/dark brown and is similar to sapele in density and stability. Continental Hardwoods in Seattle had it, not sure if they have much of a presence away from the coast. I know they deliver in eastern WA though.

[Martin Wasner]

My experience with African mahogany parrots everyone else's. Unstable and aggravating to work with. It twists up like crazy after cutting it. I think you'd really have to work it in to dimension by roughing out parts and letting them rest for a while. A serious pain when doing it commercially.

I won't touch the stuff for customers. You can't charge enough to cover the headaches.

[Bernie Kopfer]

Here in the dry part of the state of Washington (Wenatchee) we have a excellent hardwood store for a town this size. I have been purchasing a product from them labeled African Mahogany for several years and it has proven be stable and without any of the working problems described by previous posters. That is no more than say, cherry; there is always the occasional bad board. So if A M is so problem prone it makes me wonder what I have been using. It sure looks like the photos of A M I see on the internet.

[Mel Fulks]

Bernie, glad it has worked well for you. Not every board is terrible. Some are fine. Some of us have just found that the percentage of troublesome pieces is high ,and any machining requiring several steps is especially troublesome when the problem doesn't show up at first stage. Some steps then have to be repeated ,that often means setting up a machine again that has been set for a different job. A bad piece will waste time then take up space while waiting to burn you on another job.

[Terry Beadle]

I built two African Mahogany end tables with top drawer and lower leg wide solid shelf.
The material did not twist or misform. I did let it sit quite a while...some where around 6 ~ 7 weeks befor processing.
The material had lots of ribbon rows of gain fighting direction. I had to go back to school re plane blade sharpening and
scraper burring. All that was to the good but it was many hours at what would take minutes in say cherry, red oak, or typical eastern US hardwoods.

I vowed to pay what ever not to use it again. Way too much hobby time consumed just to get good surfaces for finishing.
I did finally work out a complex combination of a ebony H N T Gordon finish plane, 3 scrapers, and a full jar of elbow grease....hoot!

I've never worked sapele as I'm too cheap to buy it.

Good luck though and I think you'd do well to get some good clear cherry.

Regards,

Terry

[Jason Plemons]

Now I read this. I picked up some 8/4 khaya to make a nightstand with because I figured I could resaw it and make nice looking grain-matched panels all around. Pfft. After resawing, the stuff moved so much it became basically worthless until I got it down to 5/8" to 1/2". Instead, I used the 8/4 to make the base and bought another 4/4 piece for the panels and still ended up with a usable thickness of 5/8" which seems OK for a nightstand. I'll stick with sapele from now on.

[David Eisenhauer]

Just say no Dave. In my 30+ years of w working, I have never had any wood move more than the African Mahogany I bought for a kitchen cabinet project. Pretty looking, but, Lordy, moved like a snake.

[Barry Block]

I've never worked African mahogany but I've worked 1000's of board feet of Sapele. Production runs of pet urns. Not exciting stuff by any means but I ended up having to raise pricing on them because I had to double mill and yet I still wasted a lot of material due to movement.