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Thread: Reworking how you work wood

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Absolutely not true...Google and you may find a piece of fatality news at a jobsite due to using a circular type of saw and falling!

    Simon
    I notice you said "may." And no, I can't find one. I find suicides with a circular saw, and I found a guy in Thailand killed by what was called a "circular saw" but was actually a grinder with a saw blade on it. So the evidence so far tells us that a real circular saw is not going to kill you. And particularly in the context of being mounted into a table where the blade is hidden. I specifically said that, because it's part of the safety aspect.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 02-28-2018 at 9:20 AM.

  2. #17
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    Another idea. 3D printing. They now make wood fiber based 3D print materials. This might be the future anyway, might as well get in early.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Absolutely not true...Google and you may find a piece of fatality news at a jobsite due to using a circular type of saw and falling!

    Simon
    The EZ-One saw runs a circular saw on grooved base, on a fixed ridged guide rail (like most track saws), and is surrounded by what is essentially a 2'x4' "cage" of aluminum extrusions. It is NOT a hand-held circular saw, though it is NOT actually locked onto the guide rail.

    If necessary it wouldn't be too hard to fasten the EZ-One's feet to the floor - so it won't move or fall over if fallen on ... though I'm not sure how much weight the extrusions will take without bending. Still, replacement extrusions are easily replaceable, purchased in lengths by the foot. I've heard a story that the creator of the EZ tools used the guide rails as ramps for loading his small car. Can't confirm that though.

    The risk of a mobile circular saw was my reason for not recommending use of the edge guide or miter square - because those are smaller assemblies that might be more likely to be be pulled off the work surface. The saw on the EZ-One can be left unplugged until until on the guide rail, and then plugged just before use. The saw does not have to be removed from the guide rail when removing/adding material.

    I assume that Bill can determine what is best for him. Just offering ideas.

  4. #19
    Hi, Bill. I too have Meniere's disease. For those of you who do not know, Meniere's is a disease of the inner ear. The organs of hearing of balance are located in the inner ear so both are affected. It typically effects one side only although in about 1 out of 10 cases both ears may be affected. It's thought to be caused by too much inner ear fluid ("endolymphatic hydrops") which causes too much pressure to build up - so it's kind of like glaucoma in the ear. Other causes have to be ruled out, such as tumors of the ear, benign positional vertigo, etc... Symptoms of Meniere's include tinnitus (ringing in the ear), hearing loss on the affected side, and balance problems (ie: vertigo). The symptoms of vertigo can come and go; typically the hearing loss is progressive over time. The vertigo is often quite severe and can start suddenly and, characteristically, is independent of body position and generally epiodes are short-lived. The vertigo can be severe and I would describe it as a sensation in which your brain suddenly cannot tell right from left nor up from down. This sends conlflicting data to the conscious parts of your brain and your eyes. It results in a very strong sensation of movement and the room spinning out of control. You eyes have a peculiar motion called nytagmus during severe episodes and you actually see everything around you seemingly spinning out of control. You KNOW you are not moving but your brain,eyes, and balance are completely confused. Your brain no longer knows what input to send the postural muscles holding you up and reflexively you flail about trying to hold onto something and can end up going to ground. It feels like you are on a merry-go-round, on a roller-coaster, and a ship in rough seas all at once. It is not a loss of consciousness, just a complete loss of balance. I have had attacks while sitting on a train and ended up on the floor. Eventually in some cases the disease progresses to the point where all sense of hearing and balance in the affected side are gone; effectively the ear is dead. At this point the vertigo symptoms improve since you have essentially learned to balance with one ear only.

    Treatment strategies include low-salt diet and diuretics to try to reduce the pressure in the ear. There are surgeries which attempt to drain the ear of excess fluid but the evidence shows this often does not work well - but hearing is preserved. In other procedures the nerves in the ear are either cut or destroyed with certain medications injected into the ear - this solves the vertigo but hearing is also lost. Systemic steroids or steroids injected into the ear can help with severe episodes. There are other less conventional treatments but I don't believe any of those work very well. Medications which reduce activity of the vestibular system (balance) can also help. Meclizine is probably the most common, or scopolamine. You should talk to your ENT or neurologist about various options. Consider looking up a center for vestibular or inner ear disorders at an academic medical center in your area/region. Some of these things are really esoteric and it can often be more efficient to meet with a sub-sub-specialist who is really passionate and interested in your particular disorder.

    Also there is such a thing as vestibular rehabilitation - a special form of physical rehab. Hard to find, but it can help train your brain to deal with the crazy vestibular signals from your bad ear.

    Good luck!
    SB

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    Another idea. 3D printing. They now make wood fiber based 3D print materials. This might be the future anyway, might as well get in early.
    Along this line, a small, hobbyist CNC machine like Shapako or Inventables would be an interesting way to expand beyond "just hand tools" as long as one is ready and willing to learn the software side of things.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Alvarez View Post
    I notice you said "may." And no, I can't find one. I find suicides with a circular saw (WTF???), and I found a guy in Thailand killed by what was called a "circular saw" but was actually a grinder with a saw blade on it. So the evidence so far tells us that a real circular saw is not going to kill you. And particularly in the context of being mounted into a table where the blade is hidden. I specifically said that, because it's part of the safety aspect.
    Did you even try a good search?

    A quick search found several, one as recent as in the fall 2017: https://youtu.be/oKNojA-oNKo

    A circular saw even used in a track saw can cause kickbacks (that is why some but not all have the kickback device).

    By the way, I said the circular kind of saw which includes worm gear saws etc.

    If anyone can come up with a more foolproof system than a SS plus the clear cut set up, please share but do not say xxx is safe without any qualifications. This is not a contest ; every solution may work but potential risks should be made known to the OP who is relying on your suggestions to help him make a decision.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-23-2018 at 2:49 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bernstein View Post
    Hi, Bill. I too have Meniere's disease. For those of you who do not know, Meniere's is a disease of the inner ear. The organs of hearing of balance are located in the inner ear so both are affected. It typically effects one side only although in about 1 out of 10 cases both ears may be affected. It's thought to be caused by too much inner ear fluid ("endolymphatic hydrops") which causes too much pressure to build up - so it's kind of like glaucoma in the ear. Other causes have to be ruled out, such as tumors of the ear, benign positional vertigo, etc... Symptoms of Meniere's include tinnitus (ringing in the ear), hearing loss on the affected side, and balance problems (ie: vertigo). The symptoms of vertigo can come and go; typically the hearing loss is progressive over time. The vertigo is often quite severe and can start suddenly and, characteristically, is independent of body position and generally epiodes are short-lived. The vertigo can be severe and I would describe it as a sensation in which your brain suddenly cannot tell right from left nor up from down. This sends conlflicting data to the conscious parts of your brain and your eyes. It results in a very strong sensation of movement and the room spinning out of control. You eyes have a peculiar motion called nytagmus during severe episodes and you actually see everything around you seemingly spinning out of control. You KNOW you are not moving but your brain,eyes, and balance are completely confused. Your brain no longer knows what input to send the postural muscles holding you up and reflexively you flail about trying to hold onto something and can end up going to ground. It feels like you are on a merry-go-round, on a roller-coaster, and a ship in rough seas all at once. It is not a loss of consciousness, just a complete loss of balance. I have had attacks while sitting on a train and ended up on the floor. Eventually in some cases the disease progresses to the point where all sense of hearing and balance in the affected side are gone; effectively the ear is dead. At this point the vertigo symptoms improve since you have essentially learned to balance with one ear only.

    Treatment strategies include low-salt diet and diuretics to try to reduce the pressure in the ear. There are surgeries which attempt to drain the ear of excess fluid but the evidence shows this often does not work well - but hearing is preserved. In other procedures the nerves in the ear are either cut or destroyed with certain medications injected into the ear - this solves the vertigo but hearing is also lost. Systemic steroids or steroids injected into the ear can help with severe episodes. There are other less conventional treatments but I don't believe any of those work very well. Medications which reduce activity of the vestibular system (balance) can also help. Meclizine is probably the most common, or scopolamine. You should talk to your ENT or neurologist about various options. Consider looking up a center for vestibular or inner ear disorders at an academic medical center in your area/region. Some of these things are really esoteric and it can often be more efficient to meet with a sub-sub-specialist who is really passionate and interested in your particular disorder.

    Also there is such a thing as vestibular rehabilitation - a special form of physical rehab. Hard to find, but it can help train your brain to deal with the crazy vestibular signals from your bad ear.

    Good luck!
    SB
    Scott,
    you gave an excellent description of the disease and its symptoms. Im sorry you and the OP suffer from this. As a woodworker, how do you cope with the potential vertigo events while in the shop. What advice would you give to the OP?

    Thanks
    John

  8. #23
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    Being a bit crazy and good with elec and switches, a few things I might try. First get the dafest tools you want to use. SS with guard is good, but we can also stop a bandsaw almost immediately too. We will get to that.

    First, limit the impact of the fall ir prevent that or slow it down.

    1. Fall protection and a climbing harness. Tie off to a ceiling point so I cant slam down to the floor. Give myself just enough slack for the mobility and motion I need.

    Next elec tech to get stuff stopped:

    2. Teathered emergency stop switch. If I fall I want to trigger the tools being stopped as soon and safely as possible. If a SS is involved It may need powered till stopped to keep the braking system on so I would time delay that. These triggers could be a mechanical switch and ring (think teather on a jet ski), or proximity limit and a metal/magnetic key teather, or really anything Normally Open NO with the teather providing the Closed action, run that through a coil on a relay and pass the high voltage fir the tool though the line side of the circuit. You could do this for mounted 120v outlet receptical so any hand power tool you use will have the power shut off to that outlet if you fall or anything. 220v outlet just mount the trigger box somewhere close by where you stand.

    3. Maximize brake response time. Id run 3 phase stationary tools with darn near immediate dc brake equipped vfds. Id stop that tool as fast as i could as long as it was safe to do so. These could also be wired to the teathered estop to tigger the shutdown. The intelligent relay in a vfd could also do the timed delay a 3ph sawstop would need for its brake system. It could also be wired to a microswitch brake controlled bandsaw. Trigger from teather could have that microswitch tripped.

    4. Id create an alert setup to get me some help from another person if a system triggered. Also echo or google homes to get a fast voice activated intercom setup up and running along with a remote on the trigger setup as well to cause the echo or google home to alert someone if a trigger happens.

    Just a couple ideas i would try.

    More than one way to be safe vs just hoping its not a bad fall. But some folks dont like techy woodworking so there is always neander only.

  9. #24
    Thanks to everyone who gave advice! It is all well taken and appreciated. I told my wife i would probably wind up being a neanderthal in the shop, she has not stopped laughing.....

  10. #25
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    bandsaw

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kelleher View Post
    Hello Group,
    A few years ago i came down with menieres disease, which has resulted in vertigo ... i have been thinking about a saw stop or a 18 inch band saw ( if i fall i will go down and out of the line of fire.)
    A bandsaw could still cut your hand if you went forward. However if you always lower the upper guides to just above the wood and use push sticks and perhaps a featherboard to keep the hands away the chances are much less. It would also be possible to devise a semicircular plexiglass guard fastened near the guides that could ride just above the wood.

    BTW, I knew someone who suffered from vertigo while recovering from a brain issue. She wore a bicycle helmet when walking to prevent a head injury in case of a fall.

    JKJ

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kelleher View Post
    Thanks to everyone who gave advice! It is all well taken and appreciated. I told my wife i would probably wind up being a neanderthal in the shop, she has not stopped laughing.....
    I believe your choice is the least expensive path since you are already equipped with what are needed. Perhaps to make the use of your shop time, you can use S4S dressed stock for most of your projects.

    I use hand tools a lot but do all the grunt work with machines which means I have the most labor-intensive stock preparation taken care of before I take out the hand tools. I find that approach very time efficient and I can focus on the more important aspects of woodworking, namely, executing fine joinery tasks, surfacing the finished parts with planes, and aiming for the best results in the time frame allowed.

    Simon

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kelleher View Post
    Thanks to everyone who gave advice! It is all well taken and appreciated. I told my wife i would probably wind up being a neanderthal in the shop, she has not stopped laughing.....
    Buy a Sawstop and have your wife do the cutting for you............Regards, Rod.

  13. #28
    Scott,
    you gave an excellent description of the disease and its symptoms. Im sorry you and the OP suffer from this. As a woodworker, how do you cope with the potential vertigo events while in the shop. What advice would you give to the OP?

    Thanks
    John


    Well, the advice is everything I laid out in my original reply. Unfortunately there is no magic bullet. The solution is combination of dietary changes, periodic oral steroids or intra-tympanic steroids for severe episodes, vestibular depressants as needed (usually Meclizine), and vestibular rehab from an experienced center of excellence at a center for inner ear or vestibular disorders. In cases associated with severe vertigo there are several more aggressive surgical and non-surgical interventions which can be tried.

    For me, I take Meclizine as needed and the vestibular rehabilitation has helped a lot. Haven't had any major problems in the shop, and I take care to use all standard universal safety precautions.

    SB

  14. #29
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    Bill,

    First, I am sorry to hear that you have Meniere's disease. I am afflicted with Meniere's disease. I was diagnosed over 20 years ago with "Meniere's like symptoms" that caused intermittent vertigo attacks that gradually increased in severity and frequency. Eventually I thought I was going to have to retire because of the vertigo attacks. Finally, I saw an ENT who prescribed a diuretic for me. It resolved the issue save 1 attack the day following cochlear implant surgery. My Meniere's cost me my hearing too. With the vertigo attacks gone, I still use my regular woodworking tools in my shop.

    Have you consulted a specialist about these vertigo attacks? My personal physician after checking my eyes while I was having an attack referred me to the ENT who was able to definitely diagnose my Meniere's after I received an MR scan to eliminate any other neurological causes. A simple pill I take every morning remedied the vertigo attacks for me. IF you have not consulted an ENT I urge you to do so.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 02-24-2018 at 6:29 PM.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  15. #30
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    I have a sawstop but the problem you are having might not be solved with a sawstop. I would say a tracksaw and maybe a planer that you feed from a healthy distance would probably be mostly safe. Other than that it should be all hand tools.

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