Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 71

Thread: Sawstop's Patenet To Expire in 2021 Cheaper Saws?

  1. #1

    Sawstop's Patenet To Expire in 2021 Cheaper Saws?

    With Sawstop's patent set to expire in 2021, will the market be "flooded" with less expensive (sounds better than cheaper) saws? When Biesemeyers patent was set to expire years ago, the market was flooded with Biese clones. Suprisingly, none of the manufacturers recognized that Biesmeyer had rescended his patent years earlier.
    Last edited by Bruce Wrenn; 02-22-2018 at 8:19 AM.

  2. #2
    I wish I knew how to articulate it properly - but a post in one of the many Sawstop patent discussion threads in this forum mentioned that there are techniques that a sharp patent lawyer can use to tweak, amend, append, supplement a patent that can effectively keep the clock running indefinitely. The knowledgeable poster who talked about this basically said don't hold your breath.

    I don't know for sure if any of this is accurate, but with the way the world seems to be, it wouldn't surprise me. Especially since the story goes that the Sawstop founder is a patent lawyer.

    I really admired Elon Musk's move to abandon Tesla's patents in favor of open source in 2014. His blog post that announced it is quite inspiring, and if you're inclined, you can read it here

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    sykesville, maryland
    Posts
    127
    I read an article about 6 months ago where the government was considering making a saw-stop like feature a requirement. Me, I'm on the fence. I don't want to see the costs go through the roof, and I think there are likely better technological solutions that don't result in a $300 cost when the safety feature is triggered. It's probably best if the government stays out it and lets the market drive it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Highland MI
    Posts
    3,238
    Blog Entries
    11
    In all fairness to woodworkers worldwide, I hope SS doesn't try to extend their patent. They recouped their development costs and, I am sure, made a fair profit. They will continue to sell a quality saw, but probably at slightly reduced cost due to competition. To extend the patent is greed at our expense. I hope they do the right thing.
    NOW you tell me...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,405
    The inventor of Sawstop behaved in a very unethical manner in my opinion. As I understand it, he sold the company. Maybe the new owners will have a better sense of right and wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

  6. #6
    My contact at Festool corporate office (its parent co. is now the owner of SS) said no one in his office there seems to be sure about exactly when the different patents of SS will expire. The executives and lawyers of course do

    As a longtime user of SS, I am the first one who hope the SS technology will be made free for others to copy as soon as possible. I have friends who have had saw injuries and I am scared by seeing so many youtubers use their saws as if they were immune from accidents. They talk, move stock, move their hands across, while sometimes even throwing a glance at the camera or something. SS won't stop them from doing that, but at least it will stop them from getting hurt seriously.

    Like seatbelts and airbags, I support government regulations on tablesaw technology. I agree many can't afford the higher prices and so the sooner the SS patents expire, the better. Clones will drive prices down. In fact, if the saw industry group had not turned down Gass' offer (which would have hiked a regular saw by $300 or so), Gass would not have formed his company and everyone today would have been enjoying the SS technology widely and at much affordable prices. SS today is the #1 selling cabinet saws in N.A. because it is a great saw in addition to its finger saving feature. I hope future clones will try to match its performance, otherwise, a lousy saw with a SS feature will still be a lemon.

    Just imagine how many fingers will be lost between now and 2021(?) or 2025 or whatever dates all the SS patents expire. According to one source (CSPC?), it will be 10x365x 3, or 10 x 365 x 7, or 10 x 365 x whatever the actual no. of years that the SS patents are still effective.
    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-22-2018 at 10:30 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Prairie, WI
    Posts
    131
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    The inventor of Sawstop behaved in a very unethical manner in my opinion. As I understand it, he sold the company. Maybe the new owners will have a better sense of right and wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
    This is why I am not looking at a SS as I shop for a new table saw.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    1,930
    With all the talk from inventors and this new generation of tech kids. Flying cars smart homes robots etc. I'm thinking the days of handfed machines are numbered. Esp tablesaws soon the furniture machine where you stick wood in one end and out pops your piece that's assembled in your house.
    The satisfied home owner proudly shares his ability to make what he wants. And declares himself a woodworker.
    Aj

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    With all the talk from inventors and this new generation of tech kids. Flying cars smart homes robots etc. I'm thinking the days of handfed machines are numbered. Esp tablesaws soon the furniture machine where you stick wood in one end and out pops your piece that's assembled in your house.
    The satisfied home owner proudly shares his ability to make what he wants. And declares himself a woodworker.
    This is happening not just in commercial woodworking but in every aspect of mass production. I once had a chance in an IKEA factory tour and witnessed for myself that the speed of production makes it possible for IKEA to sell their furniture at such low prices while making a good profit.

    Hobby is different. We can choose our tools and methods. But increasingly, CNC machines/ routers are accepted as a woodworking machine. With such machines, future woodworkers would be able to build pieces with very complex joints, all without sweat. Dry fitting could even be made unnecessary!

    Simon

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    8,588
    Quote Originally Posted by tom lucas View Post
    I read an article about 6 months ago where the government was considering making a saw-stop like feature a requirement. Me, I'm on the fence. I don't want to see the costs go through the roof, and I think there are likely better technological solutions that don't result in a $300 cost when the safety feature is triggered. It's probably best if the government stays out it and lets the market drive it.
    Hi Tom, I agree with letting the market choose the solution, however I think it's time for regulations to mandate active safety systems once the patent expires.

    That should give a few years to develop regulations as to what the machines have to sense, how fast, what sort of injury is acceptable etc.

    regards, Rod.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,081
    I believe Sawstop could simply renew their patent by paying the recurring cost and still own the IP and thus block competition.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,081
    Quote Originally Posted by tom lucas View Post
    I read an article about 6 months ago where the government was considering making a saw-stop like feature a requirement. Me, I'm on the fence. I don't want to see the costs go through the roof, and I think there are likely better technological solutions that don't result in a $300 cost when the safety feature is triggered. It's probably best if the government stays out it and lets the market drive it.
    Note - its a sad day when they can regulate what saw technology we can use but other, more lethal products, are readily available to virtually anyone
    Last edited by Pat Barry; 02-22-2018 at 12:35 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Between No Where & No Place ,WA
    Posts
    978
    Let's say that the SawStop patents expired.

    Will the SawStop technology fit into existing table saw design? Or, will table saw design require changes to accommodate the SawStop technology?

    If the SawStop technology requires a design change, will the consumer see the anticipated price breaks as the costs for redesign, retooling, etc., are reflected in the selling price and are passed on to the consumer.

    In all the discussions/arguments/rants over SawStop, I cannot recall this issue of SawStop compatibility will current design discussed. Does anyone know??

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    NE Iowa
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I believe Sawstop could simply renew their patent by paying the recurring cost and still own the IP and thus block competition.
    That's not how patents work. Festool may be able to extend some of their patents administratively beyond the nominal expiration date, if their issuance was delayed by government regulatory action, or delays at the USPTO. That could get them a few years extension. Beyond that, for mechanical patents like theirs, the patents become public property and can be copied by anyone.

    The patents that protect the Sawstop mechanism are fairly dense and inter-related, and it's hard to know without a deep study exactly when they will be free, but it's almost certainly over by the mid-2020s.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    NE Iowa
    Posts
    315
    You can, I think, reasonably assume that all the major mid-to-high end brands are already working on blade stopping technology, and talking to their (almost universally Chinese or Taiwanese) manufacturers to prepare.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •