Powder post beetles

[Ron Citerone]

I keep seeing 130- 140 degree F. as the magic temperature to kill them. The problem is that means the interior of the wood has to reach that temp, not just the air around it. I would want it done by an experienced kiln operator. I belong to a woodworking school that insists on inspecting every piece of wood that comes into the shop. Any wood with insect damage is not allowed whether kiln dried or not.

I sometimes buy wood green from a sawmill and stay away from anything with live edge/bark/ excessive sap wood. Life is a gamble sometimes.................

Not an expert just my 2 pennies.

Ron

[Bob Leistner]

There are many different insects that will infect a tree. We are assuming they are powder post beetle, but don't even know that much. If the owners are entertaining one night and insects pop out of the wood, shame on you.If they can afford "six figures", no doubt they have a friend or two who are lawyers and will make your life quite miserable.

[Patrick Walsh]

My response is the same as Scott bellow. And I only say that with the recent education I have gained due to this incident. I dint claim to be any kind of expert. However more than one expert has confirmed what Scott has bellow with regard to re infecting.

All I can go on is the word of the seller and the seller insists all his lumber is kiln dried.

[Ron Citerone]

There are many different insects that will infect a tree. We are assuming they are powder post beetle, but don't even know that much. If the owners are entertaining one night and insects pop out of the wood, shame on you.If they can afford "six figures", no doubt they have a friend or two who are lawyers and will make your life quite miserable.

Agreed. I would have to think there is some kiln temp that will kill any internal bug. Now if I could just get rid of the ants that return to my house every spring!

[Patrick Walsh]

I did find a lumber yard local to me who is experienced in cooking away pests. They have agreed to take care of this for me.

Im told they will cook the wood at a high enough heat like 130 and above for one full week.

And yes I have learnt a valuable lesson. No live edge or bark included lumber vet allowed in my shop again.

[Patrick Walsh]

I can’t say for sure it is Powderpost. Actually the seller couldn’t say it was or was not Powderpost either when I told him what I found. After sharing pictures he was pretty adamant that it was not Powderpost.

I’m not taking anyone’s word on this rather opting to just cook the dickens out of the lumber.

As for the talk about how he beetles got in properly kiln dried lumber I don’t know. I can’t say but that’s the info I have.

On topic and interestingly enough I had to go to my local lumber yard this morning to purchase some walnut for a counter top I’m building for a wet bar butlers pantry I built a few weeks back. Anyhow I know the guys at this yard for a long time now. I asked if they have ever seen Powderpost and they I ediately said yes it’s quite common. Actually just last week I was sorting through a Ollie of cherry ply and right in the middle of the stack was a infestation.

My response was you gotta be kidding me what do you guys do when you find this stuff. His response was not much other than dispose of all the material. He added that the facility is just to large to do anything else about it and that they have never had it spread from one pile of lumber to another or a infestation but rather it is not uncommon for them to acquire a pile of lumber and find Powderpost.

So for whatever that is worth we are talking bout plywood and kiln dried lumber and a huge outfit that owns various lumber yards under different names throught the United States.

The cherry lumber in question I acquired from a reputable out of state retailer. It arrived on a semi truck. Honestly I dint think anyone is really to blame here as things do happen. I would like to think the retailers first response would had been ill refund your money burn that stock. In all fairness I have yet to ask him to do anything about it other than help me figure out what kind of bug I have.

Anywho....

[Thomas Marr]

Wow, I didn't realize this was such a problem with non-kiln dried lumber. I was just about ready to purchase a couple thousand feet of lumber direct from the sawmill for $1 / bf (mostly white oak). Guess I need to rethink that or get someone to dry it right away. I've seen this damage before...even in kiln dried Douglas Fir from the lumber yard. Didn't think much about it. Right now, I have just over 1000ish bf of oak, cherry and walnut in the top of my garage waiting on some projects. It's not kiln dried...but is salvaged for old barns and such. It's quite dry and very old. I haven't seen any wood dust piles but I haven't been looking either. Guess I better have a look.

[John K Jordan]

And yes I have learnt a valuable lesson. No live edge or bark included lumber vet allowed in my shop again.

I don't think that will guarantee you are free of power post beetles.

In my experience powder post beetles don't always come in through the bark or the edges, but also by laying eggs in pores in the end grain and small cracks. I actually saw this happen once while I was chainsawing maple outside my garage - beetles flew from the direction of some close woods, landed on the end grain, and started chewing into the surface. The bugs can stay undetected in the wood for months so even with no surface holes there may be beetles inside. Look for the tiny holes from spring until the end of summer the year after the lumber is cut and stacked outside. On the maple I mentioned if I hadn't seen and stopped them the beetles would probably have been in the wood for half a year before I discovered them.

There are several types which may infect different types of wood. The beetles can emerge anywhere leaving tiny holes. One reference says you can use the tip of a ball point pen to distinguish between two common types: "One way to differentiate holes of the two species is to insert a "click-type" (refillable) ball-point pen into the exit hole; only the tip of the ball will fit through a lyctid beetle emergence hole. If the hole was made by an anobiid, the tip of the pen will enter part-way up the angled face of the point. " If the holes are bigger than that they are not PPBs. Mostly under bark and into the sapwood I have seen larger larvae, some leaving holes 1/4" in diameter or larger. I don't worry about these since they don't infect air-drying lumber. They will certainly infect logs on the ground.

Some seem to prefer certain types of hardwoods. For example, once I had cherry, cedar, walnut, oak and yellow poplar boards in close proximity and PPBs got into the poplar and left the others alone. (No poplar boards had bark or live edges)

JKJ

[Ron Citerone]

I don't think that will guarantee you are free of power post beetles.

In my experience powder post beetles don't always come in through the bark or the edges, but also by laying eggs in pores in the end grain and small cracks. I actually saw this happen once while I was chainsawing maple outside my garage - beetles flew from the direction of some close woods, landed on the end grain, and started chewing into the surface. The bugs can stay undetected in the wood for months so even with no surface holes there may be beetles inside. Look for the tiny holes from spring until the end of summer the year after the lumber is cut and stacked outside. On the maple I mentioned if I hadn't seen and stopped them the beetles would probably have been in the wood for half a year before I discovered them.

There are several types which may infect different types of wood. The beetles can emerge anywhere leaving tiny holes. One reference says you can use the tip of a ball point pen to distinguish between two common types: "One way to differentiate holes of the two species is to insert a "click-type" (refillable) ball-point pen into the exit hole; only the tip of the ball will fit through a lyctid beetle emergence hole. If the hole was made by an anobiid, the tip of the pen will enter part-way up the angled face of the point. " If the holes are bigger than that they are not PPBs. Mostly under bark and into the sapwood I have seen larger larvae, some leaving holes 1/4" in diameter or larger. I don't worry about these since they don't infect air-drying lumber. They will certainly infect logs on the ground.

Some seem to prefer certain types of hardwoods. For example, once I had cherry, cedar, walnut, oak and yellow poplar boards in close proximity and PPBs got into the poplar and left the others alone. (No poplar boards had bark or live edges)

JKJ

With the price of hardwood lumber these days, this makes me nervous about buying or storing wood. I always bought air dried lumber and knew there was a risk, but now even kiln dried is suspect.......scary. I was at a hardwood dealer a few weeks ago buying a few boards. Against the wall was leaning a big glued up panel of ash with small bug holes and they were circled with marker............I suspect someone was returning it due to the holes. I see lumber on CL that was stored in a barn 25 years..........I steer clear of that kind of stuff.