Upgrade table saw worth it?

[Clayton Dool]

I currently have a ts3650 with benchdog CI router insert. It works great. Runs smoothly. Have good blade guard with splitter. Probably needs to be re-tuned/aligned after 2 moves, but otherwise still very happy with it. Dust collection probably the only thing wish could improve, especially the router insert (dread using it due to cleanup afterwards).

Been looking at SawStop (please, no negativity here) for many years. Key focus is on safety. I have never had a need or desire to stick my finger into a running saw blade, nor do I ever plan on doing so, thank you! But with that said, I have had a few kickbacks and accidents that makes me very safety cautious. Last was with the gripper in which I was VERY cautious with setup, double checked everything (I thought), but first time I used it the one thing I didn't consider was the opening in the insert (not zero-clearance...just changed out prior) was larger than thin strip, resulting in gripper tilting at cutoff went in and blade catching gripper and sending backwards, chewing bit off one side. That was closest and worst had. Prior, was kickback 10 years ago.

So am very safety conscious, but accidents can and do happen to the best, thus my consideration to upgrade to SawStop. My issue and question is whether truly worth spending $3k for saw, plus more to re-setup router table insert (or buy SS new router insert). Given I am happy with current saw, is it worth the investment just from safety standpoint? I do this as a hobby and am in my garage only few hours each week (yes, need to increase that time). Project wise, I am slow to start and to finish projects, but lined up are some end tables, bedroom set, and bookshelves. The way my other projects have gone, this will keep me out of trouble for the next 3+ years.

Looking for feedback on whether new table saw is worth it or not? Any additional benefit I am not considering?

[Michael Alu]

The way I look at it is how much would it cost for an emergency room trip, surgery, months of physical therapy, and time off of work because of a table saw accident. Add all that up and $3k doesn't even compare. You're basically buying table saw insurance with the SawStop.

Buy once and cry once.

[Marshall Harrison]

In my opinion, Yes.

Safety is worth the money spent. No matter how safe and cautious you are accidents can happen.

Note: you can get cut on a SawStop but if you are moving slowly and deliberately SawStop should keep you from losing your finger/s.

I'm sold on it enough to hold off on getting a table saw until I can afford a SawStop PCS.

[Ted Derryberry]

So the only accidents you've had in 10+ years were kickbacks which a sawstop does nothing to protect you from that any other saw can't also do with the right equipment. You say you're already safety conscious. That's at least 95% of avoiding an accident right there. I'd put the money into something else.

Once, maybe twice, in my life I've knicked my finger tip on a table saw blade. I was young, stupid, impatient, inexperienced, doing something I shouldn't have been (ripping small strips without a push stick), and using about as crappy a benchtop saw as you could find. Neither required more than a band-aid to patch up. A table saw accident is not necessarily the life changing expensive event some would have you believe. That's like saying if you have a fender bender you'll never walk again. Thousands of people die every year in car wrecks. Millions of people a year have car wrecks without any injury whatsoever. If cars were depicted as some depict table saws the roads would be empty.

[Steve Demuth]

So the only accidents you've had in 10+ years were kickbacks which a sawstop does nothing to protect you from that any other saw can't also do with the right equipment. You say you're already safety conscious. That's at least 95% of avoiding an accident right there. I'd put the money into something else.

Once, maybe twice, in my life I've knicked my finger tip on a table saw blade. I was young, stupid, impatient, inexperienced, doing something I shouldn't have been (ripping small strips without a push stick), and using about as crappy a benchtop saw as you could find. Neither required more than a band-aid to patch up. A table saw accident is not necessarily the life changing expensive event some would have you believe. That's like saying if you have a fender bender you'll never walk again. Thousands of people die every year in car wrecks. Millions of people a year have car wrecks without any injury whatsoever. If cars were depicted as some depict table saws the roads would be empty.

It's true that most table saw accidents don't put people in hospital, just as most car accidents don't. I"ve had both and never been hospitalized as a result. But it's also true that tens of thousands of lives are saved and grievous injuries prevented every year by automated safety devices like airbags in cars every year, and tens of thousands more die. Likewise, many table saw accidents do put people in hospital, and cost them digits, limbs or function. Surgeons at my hospital have re-attached more than one entire forearm in the last couple of years due to table saw accidents that would have been minor incidents on a Sawstop. That's multiple young, working men who will suffer months of surgery and healing, and never have full use of one of their hands again.

I don't care whether you love or hate Sawstop, own one or wouldn't be caught dead in a shop with one. That's your business. But dismissing the injuries caused by table saws because many are not serious, and the value Sawstop has in preventing the many serious injuries that do occur is just too bad.

[Simon MacGowen]

It's true that most table saw accidents don't put people in hospital, just as most car accidents don't. I"ve had both and never been hospitalized as a result. But it's also true that tens of thousands of lives are saved and grievous injuries prevented every year by automated safety devices like airbags in cars every year, and tens of thousands more die. Likewise, many table saw accidents do put people in hospital, and cost them digits, limbs or function. Surgeons at my hospital have re-attached more than one entire forearm in the last couple of years due to table saw accidents that would have been minor incidents on a Sawstop. That's multiple young, working men who will suffer months of surgery and healing, and never have full use of one of their hands again.

I don't care whether you love or hate Sawstop, own one or wouldn't be caught dead in a shop with one. That's your business. But dismissing the injuries caused by table saws because many are not serious, and the value Sawstop has in preventing the many serious injuries that do occur is just too bad.

Over the years, I found there are only two types of woodworkers when it comes to shop safety: the invincible and the rest of the world. Obviously, all SawStop users and owners, and those wanting be a SS user or owner belong to the second group.

Some anti-SS woodworkers are not just against the inventor or the SS company (at least the former SS Co.), but they are also trying to convince other people to stay away from it, even if those people can afford it.

Some of them also like to say the SS does not deal with kickbacks, which of course is a fake argument. Others use the "look, I have ten digits after x no. of years of woodworking" logic to convince themselves and others that it is a "sin" to have a finger saving technology on their -- on any -- tablesaws. I even saw one guy suggesting (in early days) that SS was sued because it failed to work. Then, someone would come out and say the SS is only a mediocre saw, despite the fact they have never even used the saw...other than watching a hot dog demo...on youtube!

All it boils down really to one thing (hint: un-related to safety): they don't like how Gass went about promoting his technology and business, while conveniently dismissing/forgetting/ignoring what caused Gass to pursue a business strategy as he did. Or turning a blind eye to many other businesses -- including many powerful drug companies -- that have been doing what Gass was seen to be doing for decades and decades. These same people won't say from now on, I won't take any medication.

It is a good stand to say I hate Gass' business ethics or whatever, but it is another thing to try to belittle his invention and to try to persuade others from getting it, because Gass would benefit financially. We are talking about injuries and as human beings, we should help each other keep that to a minimum.

I hope the new owner will put the SS technology in more machines and tools (first Festool SS tablesaw? or first Festool SS mitre saw?).

Simon

[Tim M Tuttle]

I hope the new owner will put the SS technology in more machines and tools (first Festool SS tablesaw? or first Festool SS mitre saw?).

Simon

Wasn't that his original mission and they all told him to get lost? I was in his shoes I'd throw every extra dollar I had at anyone trying to infringe on my patent. The CPSC stuff...eh, not a huge fan of that.

[Nick Decker]

Love Sawstop, own one myself, but its safety features won't help with things like your Gripper incident or the kickbacks.

[Clayton Dool]

Love Sawstop, own one myself, but its safety features won't help with things like your Gripper incident or the kickbacks.

No, but given my hand was over the saw blade (gripper in hand), things could have gone worse. Even though gripper is a safety device, I still do not like my hand to be above or near saw blade, especially without blade guard. I'm chicken and even more so now.

[Ted Derryberry]

If you're "chicken" then I'd recommend a new hobby.

[Mike Henderson]

Accidents happen to people who are very careful and who have been woodworking for years. Every now and then, someone will post here about a serious accident on their table saw and indicate that they have been woodworking for something like 40 years.

Buying the SawStop is like buying insurance. You hope you never have to use it but you're glad it's there. And with the SawStop, you only pay the insurance charge one time.

Weight the alternatives. If you have an accident without the SawStop, you could face a very large medical bill and lose full use of your finger(s) and/or hand. If you buy the SawStop you pay a bit more for the "insurance" that you hope you never use.

Mike

[Tim M Tuttle]

I currently have a ts3650 with benchdog CI router insert. It works great. Runs smoothly. Have good blade guard with splitter. Probably needs to be re-tuned/aligned after 2 moves, but otherwise still very happy with it. Dust collection probably the only thing wish could improve, especially the router insert (dread using it due to cleanup afterwards).

Been looking at SawStop (please, no negativity here) for many years. Key focus is on safety. I have never had a need or desire to stick my finger into a running saw blade, nor do I ever plan on doing so, thank you! But with that said, I have had a few kickbacks and accidents that makes me very safety cautious. Last was with the gripper in which I was VERY cautious with setup, double checked everything (I thought), but first time I used it the one thing I didn't consider was the opening in the insert (not zero-clearance...just changed out prior) was larger than thin strip, resulting in gripper tilting at cutoff went in and blade catching gripper and sending backwards, chewing bit off one side. That was closest and worst had. Prior, was kickback 10 years ago.

So am very safety conscious, but accidents can and do happen to the best, thus my consideration to upgrade to SawStop. My issue and question is whether truly worth spending $3k for saw, plus more to re-setup router table insert (or buy SS new router insert). Given I am happy with current saw, is it worth the investment just from safety standpoint? I do this as a hobby and am in my garage only few hours each week (yes, need to increase that time). Project wise, I am slow to start and to finish projects, but lined up are some end tables, bedroom set, and bookshelves. The way my other projects have gone, this will keep me out of trouble for the next 3+ years.

Looking for feedback on whether new table saw is worth it or not? Any additional benefit I am not considering?

I spent months researching my first table saw. Started wanting to spend no more than $500 on a jobsite/benchtop saw. The more and more research I did I came to the conclusion that I'll never use anything other than a SawStop and it was worth the up front cost to avoid cutting off my fingers or worse from THE BLADE. Yes, I know kickback can still happen but SawStop eliminates a large, high speed, spinning blade from cutting into your skin and ruining your day, year, life.

One of the tipping points for me was watching a video by Jimmy Diresta where he talked about his table saw accident. That guy has been using power tools for damn near his entire life and in a half second lapse of judgement he made a ridiculously stupid mistake and mangled his hand, almost lost a finger, and is permanently disabled to some extent.

Some people point out that other things can go wrong on a table saw to injure you that a SawStop wont prevent so it's not worth it. Well, you can also slice your finger off with a chisel or circular saw so why buy a SawStop then as well?

Based on my research, when pricing fairly comparable saws, you're paying about $500, give or take, for the safety feature. I ended up with a contractor saw. Now, I don't know enough about saws to really say that a SawStop contractor saw is better/same/worse than a Powermatic or Jet contractor saw. For arguments sake, let's say they are equivalent saws (30" w/"premium" fence, cast iron wings, 1.75 hp motor) aside from the safety feature. The Powermatic is $1600, the Jet is $1400 and the SawStop is $2000. For me, the difference was money well spent.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I currently have a ts3650 with benchdog CI router insert. It works great.

Try ripping some 2" oak at a 45º angle (really 3") and tell me how great it works.
A decent cabinet saw will eat it for lunch. Make sure it has a riving knife.

[Michael Rector]

So the only accidents you've had in 10+ years were kickbacks which a sawstop does nothing to protect you from that any other saw can't also do with the right equipment. You say you're already safety conscious. That's at least 95% of avoiding an accident right there. I'd put the money into something else.

Once, maybe twice, in my life I've knicked my finger tip on a table saw blade. I was young, stupid, impatient, inexperienced, doing something I shouldn't have been (ripping small strips without a push stick), and using about as crappy a benchtop saw as you could find. Neither required more than a band-aid to patch up. A table saw accident is not necessarily the life changing expensive event some would have you believe. That's like saying if you have a fender bender you'll never walk again. Thousands of people die every year in car wrecks. Millions of people a year have car wrecks without any injury whatsoever. If cars were depicted as some depict table saws the roads would be empty.

This is exactly why I bought a car without seat belts, air bags, antilock brakes with a one star crash rating. None of that safety stuff will ever help. I mean if the car is going to kill me nothing I do to mitigate injury will help.

If you're "chicken" then I'd recommend a new hobby.

This is exactly what I tell my friends who refuse to skydive without parachutes. Pansies.

[Steve Mathews]

I was 100% convinced of buying a Sawstop to replace my current cabinet saw. After viewing the following video I'm now 98% convinced. I was originally led to believe that the Sawstop blade would stop before any flesh was cut. Apparently that is not always the case. But on the plus side the guy in the video didn't lose the thumb.