Blue Spruce Coping Saw

[John Sanford]

This is precisely what has kept me from ordering one, an unbelievably poor choice of color for such a fine tool.

Keep in mind that the Knew Concepts saws came out of the realm JEWELRY making tools. There is a bit of a different aesthetic there. More importantly, jewelers are far, far more concerned about being able to RECOVER their "sawdust" than we are. Oddly enough, both gold dust and silver dust show up pretty darn well against red anodizing.

[Hasin Haroon]

Question for those who have handled or are familiar with the Blue Spruce saw, what is the USP of the Blue Spruce Coping saw over a Knew Concepts?

[Matt Lau]

I guess I'll do without either...as these hands will not allow me to use a broom-handle like handle for saw work...Gave away my "Gent's saws" because it hurts the hands to saw with that kind of handle.....Uncle Arthur says so... Even using a pen....I have trouble holding all but the fattest ones...pencils aren't much better...

Hey Steven,
You may want to try applying some foam wrap or memory plastic (thermoplastic) to your saw handles. My mom (occupational therapist and ergonomicist) would do it all the time for patients with good effect.
The theory is to provide a fitted handle that will take less force to hold.

[Matt Lau]

Here's a link to Frank Ford's page:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...gohandle1.html

You can also use dental putty, or thermoplastic beads to good effect.
Sugru would probably work fine too.

[Brian Holcombe]

A more bulbous handle would help the knew concepts saw, it kills my hand using it. I will likely turn something for it soon to replace the original.

[steven c newman]

It is more about the angle of my hand during the grip...regular saw totes are not a problem.....Uncle Arthur has these fingers all messed up.

Maybe IF they could make them like a frame/bow saw?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I spoke with Dave Jeske at the Portland Lie-Nielsen event this weekend. He had the new saw there, and it is as classy and beautiful as you would expect from Blue Spruce. The saw can be set to allow it to freely pivot, or can be easily locked into one of several detents. He had 8 or 10 different finishes for the saw body, both anodized and ceramic, and either natural aluminum (I think it was Al) or black anodized for the adjustment wheels. You can see some of the variety in the photos. He told me he is taking orders now and will begin shipping in March of this year (2018). Price will be $325.

WOW. $325 is a lot more than what he was suggesting was his target when I saw (and "sawed") this at Handworks. I wrote him and asked if I could pre-order, and he wasn't ready at that time. I thought I was on the waiting list, but I have not heard anything from him since. I have to say, it is one amazing saw, but $325 is quite steep.

I have the Knew Concepts 8" version of their saw. It twists like crazy. I wish I had opted for the smaller one. I used the Blue Spruce prototype in whatever wood he had on the bench at Handworks, and it performed flawlessly. I would happily pay $200 for it, but $325- wow- that's steep. Could that be a typo? Did you mean to type $225?

[Mike Henderson]

A more bulbous handle would help the knew concepts saw, it kills my hand using it. I will likely turn something for it soon to replace the original.

It's pretty easy to replace the handle. I documented the replacement of mine here.

Mike

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Mike!

[Patrick Chase]

Beautiful tool, love blue spruce tools, Dave is a stand up guy. All that said, is it worth more than twice as much as a Knew concepts?

This will undoubtedly be unpopular, but: While I think Dave Jeske has designed some wonderful tools, this one leaves me ice cold.

Part of it may be that as an engineer who's worked in carbon fiber before I have a pretty good idea how much that tool costs to make (not much). The reason he has to charge so much is because the two end pieces are molded, and that mold cost him a lot of money up-front. That's also why he's using the same part on both ends - it isn't driven by "visual symmetry" or anything like that, but rather by the need to avoid buying two molds instead of one and having to charge $500 for the saw. He really only needs that huge barrel at the handle end (and IIRC that was how the first design that he showed worked), but he has it at both as a consequence.

The same goes for his switch to off-the-shelf CF shafts for the back. When I saw the pictures of his initial concept (which I can't find right now) I had two reactions: First, that it was a very nice design. Second, that he'd never bring it to market because he couldn't recoup the required upfront investment.

I would also guess that the limited depth of cut (I eyeball it at 3-3.5") is a consequence of the need to limit the size of the ends, again to control mold costs. While that isn't a problem for dovetails, it does limit the saw's versatility. Note also that the fact that those parts are molded prevents Blue Spruce from offering multiple sizes. They'd have to retool the end pieces to do that, which would compound their economic challenge.

It seems to me that the sloped ends could also get in the way when working at full depth, though it appears to me that the corners are "outside" of the toothed part of the blade when the saw is used perpendicular to the work, so this may not be a real issue for many uses. Existing coping saws aren't as boxy as they are without reason though.

Overall I think that the material and manufacturing process aren't a good fit for the application (when you consider things like market size) and the design is overly compromised as a consequence. I also think the same of the Knew Concepts "birdcage" design, FWIW.

Finally, I get a little annoyed whenever I see people slap Cerakote or one of its clones on anything and bill it as ceramic (it's high-temperature-cure epoxy. Really).

[Bill Houghton]

What is it about these coping saws that make them worth 300+ times more than I paid for mine at a yard sale?

[Patrick Chase]

What is it about these coping saws that make them worth 300+ times more than I paid for mine at a yard sale?

Value is very much in the eye of the beholder.

I think that Dave Jeske's pricing is "fair" in the strict sense that he's not going to make a killing, and is taking a substantial financial risk because of up-front investment for tooling. The more interesting question IMO is whether the entire exercise is worthwhile. I have my doubts (see previous post) but that's just one beholder's opinion.

The "modern" framesaws (starting with Knew Concepts) do offer unprecedented combinations of light weight and stiffness, and I have no doubt that the Blue Spruce saw will be very good in that respect. The question is of course whether it's into diminishing returns.

I suppose that if you have an insurmountable objection to red tools then that would make it much more attractive. That's frankly a "don't care" for me.

[steven c newman]

OK..these are the main users in my shop..
.IMG_3242 (640x480).jpg
A Diiston/HK Porter No.10, and a red handled, Stanley round frame..

VS.
IMG_3244 (480x640).jpg
My right hand...
Grip in use ...
IMG_3245 (480x640).jpg
And, I can't hold it very long.

[Brent VanFossen]

Could that be a typo? Did you mean to type $225?

Malcolm, it could be that I heard or remember incorrectly, but it's not a typo.

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Patrick and also think the knew concepts saw is pretty excellent at tensioning while remaining lightweight even if it is a bit ‘machine age’ in appearance.

Value is entirely subjective and so the market will support the pricing or it will not.

Often a boutique producer will price products in way so that demand does not greatly outstrip supply or production ability. It takes considerable resources and investments to support high demand and many would prefer to work around a lighter and more nimble structure. Alternatively if you prepare for high demand that never realizes then you might be risking the larger business for the sake of one product.

In other words if they come to market with an exceptionally tasty price demand may greatly outstrip supply and the result is a never ending lead time which kills future sales.

If I can use Japanese tools as example, even very famous makers are priced to be highly competitive (in a relative way) and the result is a very long lead time, many requiring a year or as many as 5-7 years. There are makers I won’t bother with because of that and the secondary market supports this idea as one can wait for these tools and immediately sell them for a profit. The lead time is excessive and so the pricing is in fact too low even though on the face these are 'expensive' prices.