Shaper cutter source

[Richard Dooling]

Hello,

My brother in law recently acquired a shaper and has asked me who is considered to be a good cost/quality source for cutters.

He has a 3hp, 3 phase shaper with a 3/4" spindle.

He will likely be making medium size runs as a renovator of homes and small buildings. I imagine he will be using well behaved woods. I think he is mostly interested in making doors.

A lot of people here mention Infinity tools. I talked to a rep and he seemed very knowledgable. Any other opinions?

Thanks for any input you can provide.

Richard

[Jeff Heath]

I can tell you from experience that any use beyond home hobbyist use warrants buying quality cutters and crying only once. A lot of the asian import tooling is truly garbage, and very hit or miss. The prices are tempting, but your BIL won't be so happy when he's replacing them quickly and paying twice.

I buy mostly Freeborn and also own some Whiteside. The older American made stuff. Worth every penny of the extra money for someone who is doing, as you say, "medium sized runs" where time is also money. I touch up the flat faces myself with a diamond hone without issue. Plenty of quality carbide available to send out for re-shaping/sharpening, too.

My .02, and I'm sure you'll get all sorts of answers on this.

[brent stanley]

Hi Richard, he's the perfect candidate for HSS tooling using a "euroblock" where you buy the head once and then only replace the HSS knives as needed. I use them for everything, and if you find yourself in a position where you need more than a few thousand linear feet of product (yes you read that correctly) or are working in very abrasive material, those HSS knives can be tipped in carbide to last much longer. I did a video series on the value of a shaper to a smaller operation, you can send your BIL there if you like. It is not monetized or anything like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylYGzZC2yU

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[Richard Dooling]

Hi Jeff,
I'm very familiar with Whiteside and Freud and have found them to be solid performers. I'll look at Freeborn. I do like the idea of insert vs brazed cutters but still trying to get a better idea of the quantities he's envisioning.

Brent,
Thanks for the link! That's a great video. I'll be looking at the others and will pass this along.

I think he's going to tend towards single purpose, braised carbide cutters unless he gets more production oriented. In that case he needs a different machine!

Honestly, when I had a shop I found most of my shaper needs were better handled by jobbing out to people who specialize in this. That left me with more time to do all the other stuff I needed to do to run a small shop. I remember when we found a source for unfinished cherry doors at less than we were paying for the lumber. DOH!

Thanks for the replies,
Richard

[Dave Cav]

Freeborn in Spokane, WA does custom and off the shelf brazed cutters. They are fairly economical and good to deal with; I've had them make several custom cutters.

I've also had excellent luck with C.G.G. Schmidt, but I've mostly used them for insert tooling.

[Jared Sankovich]

Has 40mm pin knives (euro block) are cheap. I picked up all these (new) for less than the price of one freeborn passage door set.
20180219_193435.jpg

[Richard Dooling]

Thanks for everyone's replies!

[Phillip Gregory]

Has 40mm pin knives (euro block) are cheap. I picked up all these (new) for less than the price of one freeborn passage door set.
20180219_193435.jpg

For those of you keeping a "you suck" score, a typical set of Euroblock knives costs under $20 while a Freeborn passage door set is over a grand.

[Jared Sankovich]

For those of you keeping a "you suck" score, a typical set of Euroblock knives costs under $20 while a Freeborn passage door set is over a grand.

Lol. Cmt knives are about $14 each. 67 sets even at $14 is under 1k.

[Chris Fairbanks]

I bought a PM 5hp shaper 2 years ago and have not had any time to work on anything in the shop due to work travel. Hopefully as we get back into the shop this spring but I need to pickup some cutters as well. How is the cut quality on the HSS euroblock cutters compared to the more expensive carbide inserts some vendors sell vs high quality brazed cutters like freeborn sells. I only want/need a few profiles so I don’t mind spending more if it’s going to save me a bunch of sanding time with more expensive cutters. Thanks

[Phillip Gregory]

Lol. Cmt knives are about $14 each. 67 sets even at $14 is under 1k.

That's why I mentioned that, it was not a "you suck" deal but if you didn't know the Freeborn set was that expensive, you might think it was.

[brent stanley]

Hi Jeff,

Brent,
Thanks for the link! That's a great video. I'll be looking at the others and will pass this along.

I think he's going to tend towards single purpose, braised carbide cutters unless he gets more production oriented. In that case he needs a different machine!

Thanks for the replies,
Richard

Hi Richard, I'd be thinking the exact opposite actually if I were him. Carbide is great for very long runs in a production environment and/or working with very abrasive materials. HSS tooling will still run for longer than most people expect but not as long as carbide. You can expect in the range of 3000 linear feet from HSS in pine, but of course with some experience and minimal equipment you can hone and touch up HSS in your own shop for even more production from a set of knives. Carbide takes more skill and equipment to touch up.

The problem with brazed carbide tooling, is it's a one trick pony. Sometimes you get a stackable set that can give you a few combinations yes, but generally it's less flexble than HSS insert/limiter tooling that can provide thousands of different profiles.

[brent stanley]

I bought a PM 5hp shaper 2 years ago and have not had any time to work on anything in the shop due to work travel. Hopefully as we get back into the shop this spring but I need to pickup some cutters as well. How is the cut quality on the HSS euroblock cutters compared to the more expensive carbide inserts some vendors sell vs high quality brazed cutters like freeborn sells. I only want/need a few profiles so I don’t mind spending more if it’s going to save me a bunch of sanding time with more expensive cutters. Thanks

Hi Chris, if I didn't know better, I would say you were trying to start a fight! Kidding of course, but opinions will vary on this and you may have to filter out the devotees from the objective opinions! Also things can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer as machining standards vary.

Cut quality will depend on countless variables, but if we put all else equal, there are those who argue that since HSS can be made sharper than carbide that the cut quality is actually better. Since the cutterhead geometry is so good on well designed shaper heads, the HSS lasts a long time and you can expect excellent quality for thousands of linear feet depending on material. If you're a hobby scale person, or small production commercial, this length of run is often more than enough. Couple that with being able to touch things up yourself in the case of HSS and you can see the appeal.

A guy I know did a video measuring some cheap off-the-shelf knives in a cheap quality euroblock. The accuracy is pretty impressive considering they're bottom feeder grade, and are better than some standards stated by carbide insert tooling manufacturers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZolF7aCrdZo&t=643s


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[Jared Sankovich]

That's why I mentioned that, it was not a "you suck" deal but if you didn't know the Freeborn set was that expensive, you might think it was.

HA! I totally missed that.