Ideal Lathe Spindle Height to eliminate Back Pain

[William C Rogers]

I've always seen that the ideal spindle height should be the height of the elbow. I have the Laguna 18-36 and the spindle height is 41-1/2" and my elbow is 42". Very close. I recently was having back pain and going to PT. I was still having some back pain during this time as the excercises helped, but not pain free. I haven't turned in about 5 days and the pain is pretty much gone. Now I question if the lathe is too low. So I am thinking of putting some boards under the to raise it say 2" or buy the riser kit from Laguna and raise it 3". So my questions are:
1) what height is your lathe in reference to your elbow, problems
2) would a wood board under the leveling feet work ok, the riser kit would be ideal, but that would make the lathe 44-12" and maybe too high.
3) other suggestions on raising the lathe

[Joe Bradshaw]

I have my lathes set up a bit higher than my elbow. Why not try using spacer blocks of varying thicknesses. Be sure to fasten the blocks to the legs of your lathe. Elbow height is just a starting point. Some turn with the lathe lower and some turn with the lathe higher. You have to find out what works for you.
Joe

[John K Jordan]

I hate back pain!

For years I used blocks under the leveling feet of one lathe. I made them from hardwood about 3" square and cut a recess in the top to loosely fit the leveler foot pad.

You can also temporarily stand on a sheet or two of plywood to see if lowering the lathe made a difference.

I'll check my lathe height when I go to the shop. I had back pain at one time but now I can work at the lathe for hours with no problem. The floor can also affect the back - I use an antifatigue mat at each lathe and wear Tellic shoes. The light and posture and vision is important to me - if I have to bend over close to see the work my back will hurt so I use very bright lights and low power glasses when turning.

I've had students who always seemed tense and a little hunched at the lathe. Having someone experienced watch you stand and turn might help. I'm sure your PT has stressed correct standing posture - I had to consciously practice that throughout every day for years until it became habit.

If you sit for work or otherwise a good chair can work wonders for overall back pain. I used the Aeron mesh chairs when I worked at the computer every day, now I use Ekornes "Stressless" recliners when reading or typing like this. I don't watch TV but if I did I'd sit on the Ekornes sofa (with reclining seats) my Lovely Bride bought for the TV room.

My back also felt better when I bought this farm and started walking miles each day to the horses, mailbox, etc. I may work on the lathe for an hour then take a break and walk around and check on the critters.

I haven't thought much about this but the type of turning you do might make a difference in the lathe height. I mostly like to turn smaller things. Maybe if I mostly turned large bowls or hollow forms it might be different. Also, I remember Mark StLeger talking about the folly of bending over to peer into a piece while hollowing. I've seen many people do this. Mark pointed out that you can't see anything anyway so why stress your back - do it all by feel.

JKJ

[John Keeton]

As JKJ indicated, there can be many factors that cause back pain. While the height of the lathe can be a contributor, I would want to consider the more likely factors - posture, footwear, changes in your sleep habits, other activities in which you engage, etc. One can also strain the back muscles without immediate pain and have spasmodic episodes at a later time that can result in actual injury to the muscles and ligaments in the back.

[Steve Schlumpf]

William, in my opinion, spindle height really depends on what it is that you are turning. When turning spindle forms, having the lathe spindle at or below elbow height works best for me because of the way the tools are held. When turning spindles you gradually raise the handle to cut. If the spindle is too high, that makes it uncomfortable as you are soon raising the cutting tool above your elbow. When turning facegrain orientation, having the lathe spindle a couple of inches above elbow height works better because you usually have the tool handle held in the dropped position and shift your weight to transition through the cuts.

[Grant Wilkinson]

When I had my spindle height at elbow height, I found it really uncomfortable to look into the opening of hollow forms and vases. I raised my lathe by 3 inches and it works very well. My lathe is a Vega, so I don't turn spindles on it.

[Roger Chandler]

There is a thread over on WoW about spindle height at present. A LOT of turners including myself have their spindle height above the elbow. I have my G0766 at 2.5” above the elbow, and my G0800 about 2” above elbow height. As I do bowl forms, lidded boxes, vases, etc. most of all, then this this works best for me. For hollow forms, which I do infrequently now, simply because they do not sell well in our area, I still get along fine with this spindle height.

I have a herniated disc in my neck, and bending forward for long periods, especially with a respirator helmet on can give me a pretty bad headache, and shoulder/neck pain. Don’t be afraid to raise your lathe to where you can turn standing straight!

[Prashun Patel]

I also own an 18-36. I worked with my Delta 12" lathe at a higher height. I also suffer from occasional back pain and it is exacerbated by working at the lathe.

My 2 cents:

There is a tendency to twist to the left, and to white-knuckle the right hand in resistance to cut. When I remember to ease up on both of these things and take lighter cuts, it eliminates the pain in my lower back.

I also tend to hunch, which causes neck pain.

It's going to sound hokey, but I now think of the lathe as I think about yoga: I focus on breathing and posture, and engage my core. These things have helped - and have made the working height less relevant.

[Reed Gray]

Other than physical ailments like disc problems, most of the time, these types of pains are related to posture. Like Prashun, I think of my Tai Chi, which like Yoga is all about posture and breathing. It is almost funny about how bad how much bad posture can cause us to have all these associated pains. Proper lathe height can help, but some times we bend over when we don't need to. I love my sliding headstock so I have a bowl lathe and stand at the end so I don't have to extend my arms to turn bowls or bend over. I can stand up straight and keep the tools in close which you can't do nearly as well on a long bed lathe. If you focus on standing up straight and still have pains, then try raising and lowering the lathe to see what happens. I also have my lathe a bit higher than elbow height.

robo hippy

[Dane Riley]

Tool rest height is also involved. If the spindle height is higher, try dropping the tool rest slightly (in relation to the spindle) so the tool is not level but the handle is lower. The cutting angle is the same, everything is just slightly rotated.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'll echo JKJ's statement about the antifatigue mat (if you're on concrete). It's a relatively cheap and really good thing to do independent of what the proper spindle height should be. Even a cheap one from Sears (that's what I have) helps a lot. Not only your back, but knees as well.
One thing I didn't see anyone else mention, try turning a bit with your non dominant hand. It changes the way you stand at the lathe completely and may give your back a break. You don't need to do a lot of opposite hand turning, but it's a good thing to learn. I turn left handed more and more. Spindles going the "other way" sometimes is best done left handed.......

[John K Jordan]

Tool rest height is also involved. If the spindle height is higher, try dropping the tool rest slightly (in relation to the spindle) so the tool is not level but the handle is lower. The cutting angle is the same, everything is just slightly rotated.

Yes, that's one I forgot about. When I teach I watch students to see if they are hunching their shoulder to compensate for a tool rest that is just a tiny bit too high. The stance, shoulder, wrist, grip, and knees need to be relaxed, moving with the legs instead of leaning and moving with the arms (in most cases), not only for the sake of the back and neck but for the cuts. I remember one big guy who would tense up like concrete for every cut despite repeated reminders - he never did learn to make smooth cut!

It is always surprising how much difference a millimeter or two in tool rest height makes for me. I wish I had a robot rest - push a button, raise or lower a millimeter without allowing any twist. I often move the rest up or down with the lathe running (not a good thing to teach!) but I stop the lathe every time when turning something that could create some excitement if it hit the rest, such as a big chunky block or something with wings.

JKJ

[Brice Rogers]

Last weekend I attended a seminar given by Brad Adams, a bay area professional production turner. He said that he makes about 3000 bowls a year and that if he stands at the side of the lathe that he would have back and shoulder problems. So he has his Oneway lathe configured with two tool rests and uses both sides of the headstock. One side has a drive spur that he uses with a tailstock live center to make the piece round, rough shaped and with a tenon. The other end of the headstock has a chuck and another banjo. So, after he puts on a tenon, then he pops it off )the middle working section of the lathe) and clamps the tenon in the chuck on the end. So, he does the bulk of the hollowing and finish turning off the end of the lathe. Basically turning "head on". This configuration is very efficient because he doesn't have to remove his heavy tailstock.

My lathe doesn't have a way to drive off of each end (although I could probably rig something up for the handwheel end of the spindle). But I can certain push the headstock to the end and turn from the end. I haven't done this yet but plan to.

Here is a picture from Brad's website:

About Brad.JPG

BTW, the original G0766 lathes came a little higher. Then Griz reduced the height of the legs. They made a rolling change around Dec 2016 IIRC. I have installed the shorter legs. If anyone has the short legs and would be interested in a pair of taller legs, they should contact me off line. I don't have a need for them.

[William C Rogers]

I do have a anti-fatigue mat. I also slide the headstock to the end when doing the inside of bowls. I did some bowl turning today paying attention to my stance and I pretty much keep my back straight normally turning, but sometimes do bend. I'll keep that in mind. I didn't do any hollow form today, but I have the camera system and really don't do bending as I have the screen set on top of my headstock. I guess I would say my spindle height is "ok", just need to pay attention to my stance. I do remember that when I raised my PM 90 to 45" spindle I felt it was too high. When it was 42" it seemed good to me. To raise the lathe it would mean taking it back apart in clouding the 280# ballast box I added. That would be a pain in the neck!

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

I started using my dad's lathe when I was 15. Not my full 6ft tall then. As I recall, his lathe was quite a bit higher than elbow, even for him. I picked up a Harbor Freight lathe on casters for my first lathe as an adult. Frankly, the lathe seems a better height at that than the second identical lathe I got. Between the wooden frame and casters, the lathe must be 5 inches higher than factory. When i use a lathe at the club, it seems too low. (their short 24 inch (approx) bed Jet lathes, seem too cramped a space to work in) I recently picked up an old Rockwell 46-525 which seems an inch or two low. I do use a piece of rubber mat to stand on, but at most it is a half inch. However, the ergonomics of the height, neglects the additional factor of how to hold the tools to work that high. Higher means I can't garb the tool and jam it to my hip as shown in many of the videos. I went to a demonstration at Woodcraft last Saturday and the guy was good, but I noticed he was about 5 ft 10 inches, and he was using carbide tip minim lathe tools. The handles were no where near long enough to reach toward his hip. I also have a little turn crafter lathe, which I only use for very small stuff, and it is on a bench too high for me. for me to use my long handle tool at my hip, the tool rest cannot be lowered enough. With the lathe lower, the angle changes and I can use that long handled tool. Then there is the angle at which you hold your head to turn. Too high brings the turning stock up so you need not bend the head over the work. Too low and it seems like you end up looking at a sharp angle downward which bends the neck and causes pain. Too far away from the head downward tends to pull you over the work to see what you are doing. You end up standing closer, and can use shorter handled tools at the hip. Where the happy medium is for all this I do not know.