Question on Rowmark, Duets, etc

[Steve Utick]

"color fills easily"-- is another step, no matter how easy.

Example, I just lasered a 3x6 black/white plate for one customer, and tool engraved three 1x6 gray/blue office name plates for another. They're done and can be picked up in the morning, and I can get to bed by 1am... If they had to be paint filled, they'll still be done by morning but I wouldn't get to bed till 1:30!

That's true. If it were a few items, I might consider a color fill, but in this case, the customer wants 500, so the labor for something like that would add greatly to the cost. Plus as Mike points out, I'd be worried about the color fill getting chipped or rubbed out with all the handling. Really looking for the most cost effective option for the customer that will last the longest, hence looking at the IPI LaserTuff.
Thanks again for all the feedback from everyone.

[Jeff Watkins]

It might be worth calling Johnson or another distributor directly and asking for their input also. I've only used Rowmark and IPI, each have different levels of products that stand up to different environments. I toured the local Johnson facility last year and it was like a HomeDepot of plastic, isles and isles of every imaginable color combination, thickness, and grade of material you could want.

Keep us posted what you go with. Are you using Fiber or CO2?

[Bert Kemp]

OK I get it ,didn't know he was doing 500 and Kev mentioned color filling some material so thought it was an acceptable option.

[Steve Utick]

It might be worth calling Johnson or another distributor directly and asking for their input also. I've only used Rowmark and IPI, each have different levels of products that stand up to different environments. I toured the local Johnson facility last year and it was like a HomeDepot of plastic, isles and isles of every imaginable color combination, thickness, and grade of material you could want.

Keep us posted what you go with. Are you using Fiber or CO2?

Yea, I'll probably call Johnson today and talk to them and see what their recommendation would be. Good idea, thanks for that. I'll be doing these on the CO2 laser. Haven't tried anything with plastics on the fiber yet, as it's pretty new here, and frankly didn't know how acrylics would behave on the fiber. May have to experiment with that some here in the future.

[Steve Utick]

Yea, I'll probably call Johnson today and talk to them and see what their recommendation would be. Good idea, thanks for that. I'll be doing these on the CO2 laser. Haven't tried anything with plastics on the fiber yet, as it's pretty new here, and frankly didn't know how acrylics would behave on the fiber. May have to experiment with that some here in the future.

Following up to my own post, spoke with a gentleman at Johnson Plastics this morning. He said that the IPI Lasertuff would be the most durable substrate they had, and what he would recommend for a project that would be moved around and handled a lot. So, there ya go....

[Jeff Watkins]

Steve, Thanks for the update. Like I said there's so many different lines of product. I guess a product with TUFF in the name *should* hold up well, lol.

I've been using Rowmark on my CO2 for awhile and it works great. I took the time initially to dial in the settings for a particularly detailed logo I use from time to time. When I got my 30w Fiber (MOPA) I tried a few tests and was blown away by the additional detail. The downside on the fiber is I can't get it to cut, it just bubbles and makes a mess. So I think I'll stick to cutting it out on the CO2 but run the graphics on the Fiber, which is also much faster. By finessing power and frequency on the Fiber or running a second lower power/higher frequency pass you can get lighter or darker shades of the secondary layer.

[Steve Utick]

Steve, Thanks for the update. Like I said there's so many different lines of product. I guess a product with TUFF in the name *should* hold up well, lol.

I've been using Rowmark on my CO2 for awhile and it works great. I took the time initially to dial in the settings for a particularly detailed logo I use from time to time. When I got my 30w Fiber (MOPA) I tried a few tests and was blown away by the additional detail. The downside on the fiber is I can't get it to cut, it just bubbles and makes a mess. So I think I'll stick to cutting it out on the CO2 but run the graphics on the Fiber, which is also much faster. By finessing power and frequency on the Fiber or running a second lower power/higher frequency pass you can get lighter or darker shades of the secondary layer.

Jeff,
Yes, definitely interested in trying it with the fiber when I get a sheet of LaserTuff here. I too have a 30w JPT MOPA. Would you be willing to share what you do for settings as a starting point to experiment with? That's obviously been the most daunting part of the fiber, is the lack of availability of settings and suggestions for it. I have piles of test stuff here from working with some new things.

Thanks

[Jeff Watkins]

Jeff,
Yes, definitely interested in trying it with the fiber when I get a sheet of LaserTuff here. I too have a 30w JPT MOPA. Would you be willing to share what you do for settings as a starting point to experiment with? That's obviously been the most daunting part of the fiber, is the lack of availability of settings and suggestions for it. I have piles of test stuff here from working with some new things.

Thanks

Steve, with the Rowmark Black/Gold I'm using 1500s, 20p, 1000khz,20ns, 0/90 hatch @0.02mm spacing. If I just do one pass it leaves residue but upping the power looses detail. If you still have residue run another lower power/high frequency pass and it should clean right up. Since you've got a MOPA try finessing the Pulse NS up and down a little to dial in your detail once you find your power sweet spot. I'm sure IPI will act a little different as would different colors and I'd bet the Tuff line will have a thicker cap layer to get through.

I find it amusing that I can cut Black card stock with the Fiber in super detail yet most other colors just burn.

If anyone has setting for cutting Rowmark/IPI or layered plastics with a Fiber please share. Thanks!

[Steve Utick]

Steve, with the Rowmark Black/Gold I'm using 1500s, 20p, 1000khz,20ns, 0/90 hatch @0.02mm spacing. If I just do one pass it leaves residue but upping the power looses detail. If you still have residue run another lower power/high frequency pass and it should clean right up. Since you've got a MOPA try finessing the Pulse NS up and down a little to dial in your detail once you find your power sweet spot. I'm sure IPI will act a little different as would different colors and I'd bet the Tuff line will have a thicker cap layer to get through.

I find it amusing that I can cut Black card stock with the Fiber in super detail yet most other colors just burn.

If anyone has setting for cutting Rowmark/IPI or layered plastics with a Fiber please share. Thanks!

Thanks for the suggestions. My JPT source only goes from 1 to 400khz. I had some gemini duets scraps here, so did play around with those some yesterday. Got some good results out of most of those running the settings you suggested, but with only 400khz. Had some troubles with the red, just can't seem to cut through the surface on that one, but didn't have a whole lot of time to experiment around. Thanks for the suggestions and will follow up when I get some Lasertuff stock here to try.

[Glen Monaghan]

Saw an email today saying that Duets has a new Dura-Guard™ that makes Duets® Laser XT more durable. It's a new option for Duets Laser XT, said to be ideal for high-traffic, high-contact signage, wayfinding and industrial labeling applications, offering the "perfect balance" of wear resistance and easy cleaning. You can get a free sample to try for yourself.

[Steve Utick]

Saw an email today saying that Duets has a new Dura-Guard™ that makes Duets® Laser XT more durable. It's a new option for Duets Laser XT, said to be ideal for high-traffic, high-contact signage, wayfinding and industrial labeling applications, offering the "perfect balance" of wear resistance and easy cleaning. You can get a free sample to try for yourself.

Thanks Glen, I hadn't run across that yet either. Looks promising, and has a lot better color selection than Lasertuff as well. Will check it out.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Hey Kev,

I tried to PM you but maybe your box is full or you have PM turned off. What complaints are you receiving about the Duets? I'm wondering if I'm going to start seeing some from my customers soon.

[Kev Williams]

Haven't seen any complaints yet, my not using Duets is a pre-emptive strike

- Most of my laminates end up as signs and labels used in industrial settings. And I know that some of my customers will eventually need to clean these signs, and alcohol is all-too-easy and available 'cleaning agent'. I have one customer who insists on Duets yellow for their name badges as it's a much brighter yellow than Rowmark's. But I warned their buyer NOT to use anything stronger than dish soap to clean them.

For what it's worth, years ago I placed various pieces of Rowmark in a couple of coffee cans, one with gasoline, one with diesel fuel, and after a weekend of soaking they were unharmed. Thing is, many/most other available chemicals- acetone, xylene, toluene, naptha, tricholorthene, MEK, alcohol- are worse on plastics than gas or diesel! I've found that alcohol pretty much WILL break down any engraving plastic, eventually. More than once I've ruined some signs because some alcohol I cleaned edges with was trapped between a couple of parts and they ended up welded together...
Like this 12" E-stop, my bad on this deal, the obvious meltdown on the left, and between the GE in emergency-
and all the missing material ended up welded to the plate above it. Learned my lesson on these, I screwed up
about $200 worth of these just because I didn't make sure all the alky was dry...
alkymelt.jpg
- and this is Rowmark- If your patient you can probably weld Rowmark together with Wild Turkey

The issue is chemical resistance, and the short version is, Rowmark is much more resistant to alcohol than Duets. For now- I do hope Gemini resolves these issues, using their material would save me about $200 a month!