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Thread: New Workshop, now I need new dust collection

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, and Antioch, IL
    Posts
    808

    New Workshop, now I need new dust collection

    I just purchased a new shop, that I'll be moving my woodworking business into.
    It's 7,000 sq.ft, made up of 2 steel buildings.
    It's way more space than I need, so I'll be grouping the machinery near one another, for ease of operation.
    The rest will be lumber storage, shelving, and an area for packing.
    The buildings have no internal walls, so I've got a blank slate for layout, and I can run wiring to accommodate most any layout I decide on.

    I'm having problems deciding how much dust collection I'll need.
    Since the dust collector runs so much, I really want to avoid a 5hp unit, primarily due to energy cost.
    Will 3hp be enuf, like the Grizzly G0441 - 3 HP Cyclone?
    Will 2hp be enuf, like the Grizzly G0440 - 2 HP Cyclone?

    There will be 1 person running machinery 100% of the day, with a helper 60% of the day....A 3rd person rarely.
    24" bandsaw
    10" table saw
    6" jointer
    15" Planer
    Radial arm
    2 chop saws
    15" wide belt sander

    Like I said, I have more than enuf room, and I can make my pipe runs as long, or short as I want. Having this much room, there's no need to pack the machines together such that we bump into each other, but I'm not going to spread them out such that I have to lug lumber from one to the other.

    I'd like to run a 6" main line, with 4" drops. 2 machines running at the same time will not be unusual, but 3 running at the same time, rare.
    110/220 single phase throughout.

    I really hope you'all don't tell me that I need to go 5hp, or I'll be sorry, cuz that means a hefty electric bill.....
    Currently the shop is in a double garage, using two Jet single bag dust collectors, with workers wearing dust masks.....and it's a very, very poor environment.
    This will be a serious upgrade, much needed for everyone's health and well-being.
    I just don't know how big I gotta go.....
    Please offer advice.

    -dirk
    (I might put a couple of these above us....or are they more/less a waste: Grizzly G0738 - Hanging Air Filter, 3-Speed?)
    (I'll also be going with all new duct work. I love what I see with Nordfab....but, man, that stuff is pricy. Is Oneida's Quick-Clamp system any cheaper?)
    Last edited by dirk martin; 02-17-2018 at 2:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    NW Indiana
    Posts
    3,078
    I know you do not want to hear it but I think you need a 5 hp cyclone running a 8" main. You are running two machines at a time and sometimes three.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lowell,Michigan
    Posts
    372
    Sounds like your doing this as a business. I wouldn't skimp on a dust collector. Call Oneida. They will help with getting the right size collector for what you need. And also do a layout for the pipe. There's are top notch.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    I agree with John that you need to speak with a dust collection specialist like Oneida, especially because it sounds like your shop will be a business and there are safety requirements that must be met to insure you comply with regulations, etc. This is not a trivial thing in this day and age and it can be very costly not to be in compliance.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    Clear-Vue Max 3 phase with a VDF so when the third person is working you can run it at 65 cycle and lower than 60 cycle when only 1 guy is working or 2 on the least dust producing machines. 8" or 9" mains and all 6" branches, no 4" except for 3 on the bandsaw (one under the table, one in the bottom of the cabinet and one above and behind the upper blade guide) and open all the ports on the machines to 6". Otherwise you will always need to wear respirators all day long. Get a good downdraft table to sand on or make a separate dust room with it's own filtration. It isn't the dust you see that harms you it's the dust you don't and for that you need lots of air movement through the machines. You're responsible for the health of yourself an your employees. It's harsh but don't cheap out.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, and Antioch, IL
    Posts
    808
    I'm going to be socking enuf $ into this collector and piping, that I really don't want to fork out more, for 3 phase....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, and Antioch, IL
    Posts
    808
    2 Open ports, equates to 5hp?
    3hp is a no-go ?
    Seriously?.....wow....I wasn't expecting that....

  8. #8
    It is the Variable Frequency Drive that changes the single phase to three phase so you can vary the speed of the impeller. No change to 3 phase needed. Same way they do variable speed lathes. Adds only $300ish to the installation. The Aussies, because they have 50 cycle power, use them to make the cyclones work the same as they would here. Gives them 20% more airflow they wouldn't get otherwise. You can get the single phase CV-Max and be able to run enough air for two machines with 6" pipes. Gave you the 3 phase to allow a third person using a smaller dust producer to work.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, and Antioch, IL
    Posts
    808
    I see....
    As I investigate the CV-max models, they appear to be about $1,000 less than the Oneida models, of similar specs....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, and Antioch, IL
    Posts
    808
    Is the Clear-Vue Max 3 phase with a VDF, shown on their website, or is that a "special order" ?

    Peter, is this what you're talking about?
    http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cv-max/13-cv-max-three-phase-with-filters.html
    Last edited by dirk martin; 02-17-2018 at 3:31 PM.

  11. #11
    That is the one. You will have to get the VFD separately. I bought the one the Aussies use from China through Alibaba (you can order direct if you prefer) and it was A Powtran model P19130A 004G1. I'll be wiring mine up soon as I complete my installation. There is more about the VFD on the Clear-Vue site in Australia.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh, Australia
    Posts
    2,700
    I developed the VFD installation for Australia when I introduced CV to OZ. It has several advantages, the soft start eliminates the stop/start limitation per hour on the motor, variable speed as noted above, no need for 3 phase power supplies and a remote control can be added to the VFD, I use a converted garage opening control. Buy it on the net from Powtran and if you have problems Powtran will always deal with you directly to help out. Use this email, chris@powtran.com quote my name and tell Chris that you have a CV cyclone BUT with an US sourced motor. We use an Oz sourced motor because it suits us better. I am no longer the Oz distributor but if you need any help PM me.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  13. #13
    What I read on Bill Pentz website is, the 5hp motor only draws the amount of power needed to operate it, so it is more like running a 3 1/2 hp motor. But it does not overheat like an underpowered blower might. If you could vent outside during good weather you will also get the max good out of your dust collector.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin, and Antioch, IL
    Posts
    808
    Excellent info guys....and thanks for the contact, Chris.
    While I'm on this journey for dust collection, I've had an "out of the box" thought.
    I'd like to keep this thread specific to what has already been discussed, so I'll start another thread.

  15. I agree with the others, you would be best served with an 8" main and 6" drops, 4" drops are too small for nearly all machines. Running two 6" ports open, you will definitely need 5 Hp.

    Also one of the key things to keep in mind is balancing the runs in terms of static pressure drop to the machines that are likely to be used simultaneously. Of course the static pressure drop will always balance itself, but at potentially vastly different airflow rates to different ports if the runs aren't well balanced - eg. if you have one run with lots of bends and/or flex, and the other is quite direct, the split in airflow will obviously be uneven between the two open runs - which may be desirable or undesirable depending on the machines/airflow requirements. You need to think about which machine, of two machines that may run simultaneously, requires more airflow for effective dust collection and ensure that run is the least restrictive. There are spreadsheets available to do this quite easily.

    Cheers,

    Dom

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