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Thread: Hanging Wall Cabinets

  1. #1
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    Hanging Wall Cabinets

    We are in the planing stage for a kitchen remodel. We have one wall cabinet currently that is 36" wide and another next to it that is 18" wide. These two cabinets total 44" wide and they are hung on only three studs, guess one stud falls out right in between the two cabinets. The new cabinets we are considering the mfg states that any cabinet 30" or longer needs to either have a soffit above it or support from below.

    Our replacement plan calls for a 39" cabinet and a 24" cabinet (total 63" run) to replace the current two (54" run). Your thoughts, will our plan be solid and safe to do? If my thinking is correct my 63" run would catch at least four studs where the current 54" run is only catching three studs.

    Thanks
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  2. #2
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    Should be fine if the cabinets are on a hang rail system https://diy.hettich.com/en/products/...-brackets.html

    The rail can attach to all the studs. Hollow wall anchors fill in the rest of the locations.

  3. #3
    How about if you made your own rail system? Remove a horizontal strip of drywall say 4" wide at the anchor elevation and replace it with 1/2" plywood screwed or nailed to the studs. Then screw thru the plywood into the studs where you can and just into the plywood where you can't hit a stud. If it is an uninsulated interior wall you could even double up the plywood between the studs to give more meat for the screws to bite into.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the suggestions.

    The cabinets will not be installed by me, they will be professionally installed. I know it will be his problem but we are designing the cabinet run and the whole kitchen remodel so I am trying to do a design that will work.
    Last edited by George Bokros; 02-14-2018 at 7:32 AM.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  5. #5
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    I'm guessing the these are 1/4" backs with an extra 1/4" or 3/8" glued on horizontals at the top and bottom of the backs. The sides are likely 1/2" material - plywood? - particle board? and these are slotted to receive the 1/4" backs which are likely just siliconed in place (maybe a few added staples). Fully loaded with dinner ware, these type of cabinets could fall off the wall regardless of how many studs the backs are attached to because the weight of the load could simply pull the cabinet(s) apart.

    The question is what you intend to place in these cabinets. Even all ganged up (each box securely fastened to the other through the side walls and/or face frame) and hanging on a rail could utterly fail if they are secured through their flimsy backs - thus the need for a bottom support or soffit. Having two cabinets that rest on the counter top and flanking the attached center section of cabinets is a good solution too. Also useful if the cabinets are set and secured between two walls, with a stud or two to catch the front edges of the cabinets. A sidewall of a refrigerator cabinet can serve the same purpose if the cabinet can be through bolted to it.

    In my work I will gang up runs of wall cabinetry to 60" regularly, but my cabinetry is 3/4" ply with glued and screwed 1/2" backs. The system of ganged up boxes like this can easily be supported by 4 studs using 3" # 9 washer head screws top and bottom through the back of the cabinets. If the the stud layout is not favorable, it is useful to remove the sheet rock behind the cabinetry and apply 1/2" plywood directly to the studs or letting in some 2x6 blocking.

    Hanging rails is always a nice solution if the finished sides (visible sides and bottom) of the hanging cabinets are not spaced off the wall requiring some kind of trim detail. I wish that manufacturers provide load ratings for their wall cabinets. That would tell you more than width and height.
    Last edited by Sam Murdoch; 02-14-2018 at 8:49 AM.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  6. #6
    You'll be fine. Remember when you attach the cabs together one adds strength to another.

  7. #7
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    I agree with the rail system...either commercial or shop-made including "French cleats". Level the rail and your cabinets are dead on level horizontally. You only need to tweak for back-to-front level then.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
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    Happens all the time in the world of installing cabinets.

    Screw the cabinets to their respective studs, then screw the cabinets together at the bottom and the top. Angle the screws so it seats into the bottom/deck and the top plywoods.

    Don't feel that is enough? Install cabinets at usually. Drill a hole in the nailer and into the wall. Remove cabinets. Install a drywall anchor where your hole is located. Reinstall cabinets and add the extra screw. These don't hold much weight but I've used this method on spice rack cabinets that fall between studs. Those cabinets are still screwed to adjacent cabinets as that will support the majority of the weight.
    -Lud

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    Hanging rails is always a nice solution if the finished sides (visible sides and bottom) of the hanging cabinets are not spaced off the wall requiring some kind of trim detail. I wish that manufacturers provide load ratings for their wall cabinets. That would tell you more than width and height.
    Wouldn't this be the case with any installation method? You'd still want the cabinets to be plumb regardless of wall conditions. With the hang rail system, exposed cabinet sides are usually covered with an additional finished end panel that gets scribed at the rear edge. Same for base cabinets.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by George Bokros View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    The cabinets will not be installed by me, they will be professionally installed. I know it will be his problem but we are designing the cabinet run and the whole kitchen remodel so I am trying to do a design that will work.
    If they're going to be installed by a professional, then I would venture to say he will be able to install whatever design you choose and you should dedicate your brain cells to some other problem.

    Unless it's his first week on the job, your installer will use any one of the various methods suggested, all of which will be in his arsenal when he arrives to do the work. Whatever you come up with, the installer will tell you he's faced worse.

  11. #11
    Our default on about any cabinet install was to simply lay out the uppers on the wall with snapped lines, cut the sheetrock back, and install a 6 or 8" strip of either 1/2" or 5/8" ply horizontally screwed to the studs to give continuous fastening. Its not actually that much work and it allows you to fasten every single cabinet as needed. We always ran 90% new construction or fully gutted remodels so we always installed a 2x6 let-in to the studs horizontally at the upper and lower cab fastener locations.

    Im not a fan of hanging rails unless your walls are straight as an arrow which is extremely rare.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Our default on about any cabinet install was to simply lay out the uppers on the wall with snapped lines, cut the sheetrock back, and install a 6 or 8" strip of either 1/2" or 5/8" ply horizontally screwed to the studs to give continuous fastening. Its not actually that much work and it allows you to fasten every single cabinet as needed. We always ran 90% new construction or fully gutted remodels so we always installed a 2x6 let-in to the studs horizontally at the upper and lower cab fastener locations.

    Im not a fan of hanging rails unless your walls are straight as an arrow which is extremely rare.
    One good thing about your method is it keeps the cabinet flush and introduces no space like a cleat or even a lower profile rail would introduce. I assume you use shims at the cleat to adjust for imperfections in the wall. I've done a few pantry installs with built in drawers where we installed blocking at the drawer slide locations, but never done as you've described for uppers. Thx for sharing

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    One good thing about your method is it keeps the cabinet flush and introduces no space like a cleat or even a lower profile rail would introduce. I assume you use shims at the cleat to adjust for imperfections in the wall. I've done a few pantry installs with built in drawers where we installed blocking at the drawer slide locations, but never done as you've described for uppers. Thx for sharing
    We just did it across the board. For uppers and lowers. Shimming on nightmare walls is a given but we primarily work with and make face frame cabs that allow for a bit of come and go with the wall as long as its reasonable. Someone is going to have to eventually deal with a rolling wall and its usually the counter top guys. They have zero option for fudge. The rest of us can somewhat roll with the punches.

    Having a continuous nailer is nice in that you can have a fastener 1.5" in-bound left and right of every cabinet interior. No one ever see's it. Even on uppers. But it does look nice when you open a cab and see a hanging fastener equally spaced on any size cabinet.

    The best option on a face frame job would be to plan for a hanging rail, flush your tops to the face frame (tops are inset to flush to the face frame) and install your fasteners above the uppers top never to be seen.

    These details, at least in our world, seem to go completely un-noticed and more aptly uncompensated, by the consumer. So your left making things nicer and nicer while never being compensated OR your just say the heck with it and ship the same stuff they are paying for from Riceland and slam bam contractor.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    Wouldn't this be the case with any installation method? You'd still want the cabinets to be plumb regardless of wall conditions. With the hang rail system, exposed cabinet sides are usually covered with an additional finished end panel that gets scribed at the rear edge. Same for base cabinets.
    I have yet to install a non custom cabinetry system that came with separate finished end panels or bottoms and very very rarely is there scribe (or at the most minimal - 1/4" maybe) on the side walls.

    I still maintain that for the typical box store cabinets and most "manufactured" low end cabinets, screwing them to each other does not make them a system. The whole strength when hanging issue (for uppers in particular) still rests on the material used for the construction of the walls and backs of the cabinets and how the backs are attached to the boxes, THEN, how they are attached to the support structure of the wall. Stapling, or gluing, 4 paper bags side by side won't give you a "super sack" that will hold more combined weight.

    Just saying - don't ignore the manufacturers' recommendations - support at the top/bottom and/or sides could be critical. Of course if you are only storing cereal boxes and tupperware up there no problem, but uppers loaded with dinnerware or canned goods require a different approach.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Ludwig View Post
    Happens all the time in the world of installing cabinets.

    Screw the cabinets to their respective studs, then screw the cabinets together at the bottom and the top. Angle the screws so it seats into the bottom/deck and the top plywoods.

    Don't feel that is enough? Install cabinets at usually. Drill a hole in the nailer and into the wall. Remove cabinets. Install a drywall anchor where your hole is located. Reinstall cabinets and add the extra screw. These don't hold much weight but I've used this method on spice rack cabinets that fall between studs. Those cabinets are still screwed to adjacent cabinets as that will support the majority of the weight.
    Works for me. Only I won't pul a cabinet unless it's to throw a bunch of liquid nail on the back before we screw it. This works well on plastic walls.

    Too many replies of different ways to install. I installed 7 years straight everyday 5-6 days a week. It's not complicated unless made so...

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