[OP]
Contributor
I've got a large slab of boos butcher block top -- 2.25" thick x 24" x 7' long. I was planning on using this for a bench top but in looking at benchcrafted's wagon vise but looking over the install directions now i'm concerned that this may be too thin for that style vise. seems like i may need to build a thicker top or look for another vise. Thoughts?
Bob C
Member
Make it thicker in the region of the vise or add a thicker front/apron. If you are happy with the rigidity of the slab, you don't necessarily have to thicken up the whole top.
Member
Butcher block top sounds terrific! If you are concerned about thickness just build up with another layer or two. 2X4's from the local wood supply, MDF, plywood, what have you. Laminate a thin piece of show wood the full thickness all the way around and no one will ever know about the build up. Don't go too thick though, or you will run into problems with holdfasts not holding fast, seems that 3-4 inches is the sweet spot.
Or you could just thicken the top where needed for the wagon vise.
Mike
From the workshop under the staircase, Clinton Township, MI
Semper Audere!
Member
I have to ask, since I've been mostly a handtool woodworkers since about '92, what in world are y'all doing that needs these thick tops? I've never had a top that was a full 2" and I don't get the need for these slabs. I've never made a drawer, or anything else with machine made dovetails, so they all have been chopped by hand. I am not trying to be nasty, I just don't get it.
[OP]
Contributor
Bob L...this is my first bench and i'm new to handtools so i can't tell you ...i figured the 2.25 was plenty thick and rigid. It wasn't until i started looking at plans and reading the docs for the wagon vise that there mention of 4" as seeming to be typical.
regarding bench dogs...i'm planning on just drilling 3/4" holes. Maybe a dumb question but (a) any issue w/2.25" thickness for these and (b) what keeps then from just falling thru -- aka what holds them in place?
Bob C
Member
On bench dogs, the spring on the side will hold them just fine. Your holdfasts will work. I always thought that the reason for the thick tops was it was easier to not saw the wood up any further and they could plane the top down occasionally. But in this day and age I haven't seen a good reason. If you are pushing your bench around while hand planing, cant the legs about 15 degrees and that will solve the problem and save a bunch of cash. If you just like the looks of a big fat top, thats OK, just don't say that one can't woodwork without bench built of a half ton of wood.
Contributor
The benchcrafted vise is designed for a 4" thick top, but it can be made to work on something thinner. My benchtop is 3-1/4" thick, and that required me to do things a little differently when installing this vise.
You'll need to make an end cap that is 4" thick, and you'll have to make some hardwood spacers to shim down the guide rails. The depth of the recess that accommodates the lead screw will need to be reduced- in fact you may not have to make any recess.
From memory, the BC instructions mention installation for thin benchtops, but the section was kind of vague compared to the instructions for 4" tops. You had to scratch your head for a minute and figure out a few dimensions. But overall it's not that complicated.
Contributor
My benchtop is barely 2" thick with a 4" board laminated on the front. My recollection is that it was slightly easier to install the benchcrafted wagon vice on mine than if I had built a bench with a full 4" top. I just added a piece of wood underneath instead of excavating a large cavity. As for the dogs, if you google "making wooden round bench dogs" you will see some ideas with wire added to keep them in place. Or, Lee Valley has some bench dogs for 3/4" holes. I just bought a pair and like them. Have not had a problem with the thickness.
Tail vise installed.JPG
[OP]
Contributor
Ok all good news and you cleared up one simple concept ... I didn’t know the bench dogs had a spring or piece of metal springing out from them to hold them in place. Duh...
Member
Bob,Originally Posted by Bob Cooper
Most folks will over think their first bench build. Just do it and correct your mistakes on the next build. You will have no clue what the mistakes are until you have worked on the bench for awhile. For some folks (me) tail vises are not all that functional. and are a waste of money and time to instal. As for the 2.25" thick slab, my last bench build had a 48mm top, slightly under 2", and it had no problem with holdfasts.
I would probably lose the wagon vise and go with a simple metal QR for a face vise. A few holdfasts from TFWW, some battens and stops and you can be making furniture in little time.
BTW, I expect your Maple top will work well.
ken
[OP]
Contributor
Ken
Thanks I do appreciate the advise
There are reasons some people build thicker bench tops and legs:
1) A heavier/sturdier bench has less tendency to shake, rattle & roll.
2) Joinery/construction may be simplified with larger tops & legs as supporting structure, other than the legs and top, may not be necessary.
3) Damage to a thick top is easily planed away.
4) A thicker bench top may not give or flex under loads or hammer/mallet blows, particularly over heavy legs.
5) Sometimes a level, larger surface on the long sides of a bench can provide a convenient place to clamp/attach: boards, plywood, panels, leg vises.....larger surfaces may provide a place to drill holes for a number of different dogs, surface clamps, hold downs....
Although workbench designs may vary for good reasons, they should all provide suitable places to work edges, end grain and surfaces of boards/stock.
Wagon or tail vises are popular with many woodworkers. There are experienced woodworkers on SMC who have posted that their tail/wagon vise became their most used vice soon after they added one.
Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 02-14-2018 at 1:17 AM.
Contributor
Count me as one who wouldn't be happy without a tail vise. For a while me idea was to have a wagon vise. It is a very useful design, but it really can not do as much as my rather simple tail vise in current use. Even its disadvantage of racking can be turned into a useful feature.
My vise racks, as do many. With a simple addition this can become an advantage:
Planing Thin Stock.jpg
Here a spacer stack is being used to prevent racking which also prevents the vise from closing down overly tight on thin stock being worked.
With two dogs in the vise and two on the bench odd shaped items are usually fairly easy to hold while being worked.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
On the topic of bench tops and tail vises. My workbenches are Veritas with 2 in. tops and holdfasts (Gramercy) work fine. I would say 2 in. tops are fine , anything thicker is also good but too thick a top is probably not necessary aside from the added mass. For a tail-vise I use the twin-screw vise and bench dogs for all flat work, but came up with this for edge jointing wider boards at the side of the workbench.This is a blog entry with multiple pics describing it. Edge-jointing using tail vise
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