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Thread: Don't Forget That 'Oxford Comma'

  1. 02-11-2018, 2:12 PM #1
    Jim Koepke's Avatar
    Jim Koepke
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    Don't Forget That 'Oxford Comma'

    Interesting court case that breaks down into the lack of a comma most people wouldn't use.

    Without the Oxford comma, the line "packing for shipment or distribution," could be referring to packing and shipping as a single act, or as two separate tasks.
    [ https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/us/da...rnd/index.html ]https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/us/dairy-drivers-oxford-comma-case-settlement-trnd/index.html

    My recollection was in grade school we were taught to use a comma before the and or or in such a list. In high school we were told it wasn't needed. Now it has come down to being necessary in legal writing. The world isn't turning, at times it seems to be spinning out of control.

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  3. 02-11-2018, 6:00 PM #2
    Frederick Skelly
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    Yeah, I can see how they read it both ways. But to avoid controversy, I'll leave it at that.
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  4. 02-11-2018, 8:45 PM #3
    Sam Force
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    Be very careful where you put a comma. They will get you in trouble

    Woman without her man would be nothing


    just saying!!!
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  5. 02-12-2018, 10:34 AM #4
    Grant Wilkinson
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    This does not surprise me. In my former life, I drafted legislation in the Canadian Federal system for 25 years. Punctuation was critical, and did not always follow what I had been taught in school. Legislative punctuation is an animal all its own.
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  6. 02-12-2018, 11:14 AM #5
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    Jim Koepke
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    Legislative punctuation is an animal all its own.
    One thing learned during my life in California is police officers will often stop cars late at night for not using a signal. They may just be checking for drunks, profiling, raising revenue or just plain unaware of the law's interpretation of, "a signal is required as it affects traffic." (which is the wording in the CA Vehicle Code)

    Judges have looked at that and decided if there is no other traffic to affect a signal isn't needed. My habit of signaling for everything has me signaling in my driveway at times.

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  7. 02-12-2018, 12:19 PM #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Force View Post
    Be very careful where you put a comma. They will get you in trouble

    Woman without her man would be nothing


    just saying!!!
    I was at a football game once and saw an airplane towing a banner that said "Kathy I'm sorry I love you". I felt sorry for the guy. How bad did he screw up to have to hire a plane to apologize? Then he screwed up again because of the missing comma. Either that or he couldn't afford the comma.
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  8. 02-12-2018, 1:12 PM #7
    John C Cox
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    Contract law and legislation is an animal all of it's own...

    Of course - everybody wants to interpret the contract/law to be most favorable to themselves.... And so it's important to be clear what it's all about...

    And thus - a $5 million comma....
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  9. 02-12-2018, 11:57 PM #8
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    Or maybe he was sorry that he loved her, it happens LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall K Harrison View Post
    I was at a football game once and saw an airplane towing a banner that said "Kathy I'm sorry I love you". I felt sorry for the guy. How bad did he screw up to have to hire a plane to apologize? Then he screwed up again because of the missing comma. Either that or he couldn't afford the comma.
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  10. 02-13-2018, 7:51 AM #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert Kemp View Post
    Or maybe he was sorry that he loved her, it happens LOL
    Point taken.
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  11. 02-13-2018, 9:53 AM #10
    Alan Rutherford
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    The dozen or so people in this country who can still recognize and discuss details of grammar are apparently all members of this forum.
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  12. 02-13-2018, 10:14 AM #11
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    So, when, in, doubt, put, a, comma?
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  13. 02-13-2018, 12:15 PM #12
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    I read the article about what happened here and it was quite interesting...at least from a legal standpoint on how things can be interpreted in that light. I was taught in school (both GS/HS and college) English classes to not put a comma after the word before the "and", but clearly there are some circumstances where that is a potential problem waiting to happen.
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  14. 02-13-2018, 1:35 PM #13
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    or maybe he just didn't like her anymore and his grammar was spot on. I guess if he wanted to confuse her, it worked. And there is the old saw about helping your Uncle, Jack, off his bike
    Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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  15. 02-13-2018, 1:56 PM #14
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    Marshall Harrison
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    Grammar is a lost art. It really irritates me to see people using "your" when they should be using "you're". But, language changes and adapts.

    When I was at DLI/FLC we got into some weird language constructs like future past tense. Couple that with the nuances of learning German and things got tough.
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  16. 02-13-2018, 5:59 PM #15
    Wade Lippman
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    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    Contract law and legislation is an animal all of it's own...

    Of course - everybody wants to interpret the contract/law to be most favorable to themselves.... And so it's important to be clear what it's all about...

    And thus - a $5 million comma....
    Another judge might have ruled exactly the opposite. Or different lawyers might have come up with a different decision.

    English grammar might be imprecise, but the legal system is much worse.
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