Contributor
All this Jointer talk reminded me I had a Jointer to finish rehabbing.....chipbreaker was gappy in the middle, Got that detail fixed...refreshed the edge of the almost too short iron...
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Had a scrap of Pine, cupped a bit..flattened the cup down a bit....Old No. 8 seems to want to work,,now..
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Just maybe.
Contributor
This could also be a sign of a plane being concave from toe to heel. A simple test is to set the blade for a minimum cut using a small block of wood held in hand. Then set the plane on a piece longer than the plane that is known to be straight. Push the plane forward without downward pressure. If there is no shaving, then the area under the blade is off the work. To further test, push down on the plane on the same set up. If it then takes a shaving, concavity is confirmed.The plane will cut deeper wherever you put more pressure and vice versa...
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
My 6" jointer is really too small to be useful for either edge or face jointing, so the #7/#8 come out on larger projects.
If I need to square a long board, I will mark a straight line on it, cut it on the bandsaw, hit the edge with a #7 or #8, and then use that edge against the rip fence on the table saw. I suppose I could use the planed edge, but I know the table sawn edge will be square; I'm not quite as confident in my edge jointing skills.
For face jointing, it seems most of the rough lumber I have gotten from my hardwood supplier recently has been at least skip planed, but when do need to face joint, I will take a #5 (I'll start with a scrub plane if it is bad) and knock off the high spots on a board until it will go through the 15" planer flat. I don't do the whole board flat, just enough to properly register on the base of the planer. Anything that is too cupped or twisted for this technique usually gets left at the lumber yard.
Jeff,
Is that a Kearney-Trecker horizontal mill with a vertical mill attachment in the back left of the shop?
Last edited by Andrew Seemann; 02-11-2018 at 1:25 AM.
[OP]
Contributor
I appreciate all of the feedback; a lot of good information here. It sounds like most do make significant use of the jointer plane... even when owning a power jointer. It makes sense, especially for fine tuning off of the machines. I don't have a power jointer option so the choice is easy for me, but I think for now I will just stick with the #7 and forgo trying to save for a power jointer - especially since I'm not trying to push out quantities of anything.
After reading all of these responses, I decided to spend some time with my old #7 this evening to see if I could really dial it in. I got everything sharpened up and put it to work on the edges of some 7 ft long, 1 3/4" thick walnut. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the performance - I think the tool is plenty good enough for my skills at this time. I think I'll stick with the vintage #7 and skip the premium makers for now and focus on working on my technique.
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Member
One thing that I forgot to say earlier: The power jointer and the jointer plane don't perform equivalent tasks.Originally Posted by JohnM Martin
The power jointer performs the jobs of both a jack/fore/scrub (roughing to shape) and a jointer (refining the shape). In the usual coarse/medium/fine succession the power tool is nominally both coarse and medium, whereas the plane is canonically used for the medium step. On the flip side of the coin, IMO the handplane does a much better job of achieving a precise surface (though admittedly I'm much better with the plane than with the power tool, so I may be biased as a consequence).
Guest
If the boards/surfaces are too large to handle with the power equipment available, (which is everything nowadays), and they are longer/ wider than a few feet, then my jointer plane is an essential tool. In most cases it does a better job than a powered planer or jointer, but takes more time and sweat. I would consider my tool kit incomplete without a jointer plane.
Contributor
My usage is similar to what Stanley just said.
I do use powered tools for a number of projects -- 6" jointer and 12" planer.
If a board fits the planer, but not the jointer, I'll typically just use a jack and winding sticks/straightedge.
My #7 is most used when working on wider panels, and for an occasional quick/fun project where I want to just use hand tools.
It has a hock blade with the corners eased a bit.
Matt
Contributor
I've debated on whether to upgrade to the 6" Jet jointer to an 8" Grizzly, but I'm not sure that the extra 2" of width and foot and a half of bed length gets me much compared to my current process (I don't have room or appetite for a larger jointer), especially since it would cost around a grand. I suppose it would cover most of my jointing needs, and I could use my jointer plane/table saw method for edge jointing long boards, and jack plane/planer method for face jointing wide boards. Or I could keep doing what I do now, and keep the extra grand. That plan keeps winning the debate
Member
A keen eye, Andrew. It's a model 2K Universal with the high speed vertical head attachment. Adjustable to any angle, as it rotates on 2 axis, and has horizontal adjustment out from the horizontal spindle up to 17". This was a project (and then some) to rebuild, but what a gem now. It was an upgrade to my former 2H. Built in 1946. More discussion on my YouTube channel, if you're interested. Just see the shop tour.
Jeff
Member
Stanley,
I would say that in all cases, a hand plane is going to leave a better quality finish. I always use my power tools just for doing the bulk of the roughing work, but finish the job with a jointer plane, followed by a smoothing plane. Machine tool ripples look horrible when finish is applied, and I'm not a fan of sanding dust. Besides, I find a hand planed finish more desirable (as do my customers), and my lungs appreciate the effort to keep sawdust to a minimum in the shop.
Jeff
Guest
Agreed on all points.
Even a rough plane finish, steps, and warts and all, is better than planer/jointer ripples.
From a more practical viewpoint, and this is something everyone that uses handplanes a lot knows well, I find that the cut made by a handplane creates a better gluebond. The ripples, and damaged fibers electrical dimensioning equipment leave are less than ideal.
And using a handplane, I can tune edges for a better fit than an electric jointer can (no snipes), and even spring edges for very tight joints, with very little effort or brain-damage.
A good jointer handplane is a critical tool in my opinion, at least when the boards get a longer. I prefer wooden-bodied planes for most jobs, but nothing beats a metal body for long planes
Stan
Last edited by Stanley Covington; 02-11-2018 at 7:30 PM.
Contributor
Agreed. I dealt with this issue yesterday with my wooden try plane. The shavings were not always coming off where I thought they should. When I was able to get a complete shaving from one end to the other and then checked with a straight edge, I would always have a hump in the center. This can be caused by bad technique, which I am not immune to, but it was too consistent for that to be the only culprit. I retracted the iron, flipped the plane over and checked the sole with my straightedge. Sure enough, there was a tiny concavity along the length of sole. I did not check with feeler gauges but from experience the hollow was 1 or 2 thou deep. This is not deep enough to keep the blade from cutting with the heavy shavings I take with a try plane- the effects were subtle and are similar to those caused by a dull blade and bad technique.
Anyways I spent a couple of minutes lapping the sole with 220 grit and there was a definite improvement in the consistency of the shavings. I could plane from end to end and keep the workpiece flat, which makes adjusting a face for twist or squareness much more straightforward.
Moral of the story: a sole that is concave to any degree is an unacceptable condition if you want to do fine work and preserve your sanity. This is the main risk when buying an old metal jointer, as far as I am concerned. If on the other hand the sole is slightly convex, that is workable and there are even some advantages.
Contributor
The K&T was probably my favorite mill in the research lab I worked at in college. It was a WWII era universal, not sure which model. We had the vertical head for it and the power driven rotary index head. I always wanted to make a worm gear on it, but never had the opportunity. I probably used the Bridgeport more, but I really liked the K&T especially the power feed on the knee, also there was something about the war finish and the whole history of the thing. It sat next to a WWI vintage Brown and Sharpe mill. That one was slightly more versatile, but not as heavily built. Plus it had a B&S taper spindle and we didn't have much tooling for it (not surprising since it was the 1990s and it was built in about 1916).
We had the WWII version of your Monarch lathe, and a 50's version of that DoAll as well. The Monarch was pretty beat up with worn ways, but it still got used a lot. This does bring back memories
Contributor
I bought a no 7 this morning, still needs a little rehab but I sharpened the blade and put it to use on my bench project. I was amazed how well it worked. I had ripped the edges on the table saw already, but had a glue up ready surface in no time with the 7. I am planning to use it a lot.
Guest
I have mentioned before how my LN No.7 had a warped sole, and require significant effort to flatten. That was before 2004. Don't take it for granted that it will be straight. Check it before purchasing if you can.
Stan
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