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Thread: How I make doors.

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    1,933
    Fun video! I've thought about doing an edit showing a few seconds of each step.

    Look at Doucet door clamps - better than JLT.

    RF panel clamp is nice and fast. Ours is set to 40 seconds, but the exposed glue takes normal time to dry so handling time isn't much different. But no hand clamps and less floor space than a reel. JLT type clamp rack would be another option, but the RF clamp flattens nicely as well.

    I have run sticking on the moulder, but prefer to be able to flip sticks around at the crosscut station as best face can change end-to-end in a stick.

    Briefly:

    Order 15/16 H&M stock
    Straight line rip to 3/16" over width for sticking blanks, and rip panel stock if needed
    S4S to 1/16" over width on moulder
    Crosscut with tiger stop calibrated to 0.025" over, flip sticks around for crown up and/or best face
    Cope 3-4 at a time, removing 0.012" from each end of the rails
    Run sticking butting parts end-to-end to exact width
    Park cart in front of door clamp
    Veneered panels cut on table saw (uniform veneer seams running vertically across doors, and uniform pattern running horizontally across doors)
    If needed, quick run through shaper for a back cut to bring down thickness to fit groove exactly (like 60 FPM feed, invisible after assembly)
    Orbital panels at downdraft table with sander hooked up to vacuum
    Stuff foam panel spacers during assembly into JLT rotary clamp
    No pins, glue sets fast
    Widebelt next day
    Bump ends to flush up joints, brings length to exact dimension ~0.012" each end needed to flush up
    Run any edge details per job on shaper
    My customers are cabinet shops, so they handle ROS and hinge boring

    For solid wood panels:
    Run panel stock S4S to expose any hidden defects and get edges 90 degrees and parallel
    X-cut 1" over length
    RF glue panel staves
    Ideally let sit overnight before sizing
    Size on table saw
    Plane both faces
    Widebelt both faces
    Shape with best face to front
    Orbital any portion that will not be flush with frame before assembly

    I have an old Voorwood shape and sand that I may put into the mix just for door edges.
    JR

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
    Posts
    1,391
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton View Post
    I'm old, and have basically been in business my whole life and can say there is some truth to your statement. I have an aversion to debt, and there has been many companies come around since I started that go into debt to make mediocre boxes through automation. They kick my butt until the first downturn then have an auction. As it stands now I am definitely the oldest company around here.
    Almost the same here Larry. When I started in 76 there was really no custom woodworking market here. Then when things took off in the mid 80s a lot of shops moved in, especially in the latr 90s. All the new ones went away in the big turndown. A while ago on wood web someone noted that in his area over the last 30 years a lot of cabinet shops came and went but its the same plumbers and electricians still in business. Its the same here.

    I believe the cabinet market is a lot tougher now than years past especially with the semi custom cabinets getting better at the lower price points.

    Me, at this stage I just want interesting jobs with no time pressure.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    odessa, missouri
    Posts
    1,910
    Blog Entries
    3
    It picked up in the KC area. Everybody got bigger. Smaller shops survived. The skill level has lessened.I'm considered an antique. Us cowboys are about gone...

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by jack duren View Post
    It picked up in the KC area. Everybody got bigger. Smaller shops survived. The skill level has lessened.I'm considered an antique. Us cowboys are about gone...
    And one of these days kitchen scientists will demand the return of METAL cabinets. Their research will show them to be more re -Cycleable . And that we need some new dumps for the old wood stuff.

  5. #65
    Ive had the exact opposite experience with getting material surfaced from our 3 suppliers. I posted a while back with photos of the first unit of material for a job with 4/4 Cherry. We brought in two 1800+ BF units, S2S to 13/16" and SLR1E. All of them will say when you order S2S that they only have "roughing planers". The material in the pack I posted pictures of was so smooth and free of tearout that if we wanted to roll the dice we could have probably gone straight to 180 out of the pack on the face side. Easily to 180 after we ripped and edged on the shaper. We however spray waterborne which means it all needs to go through the sander. But every board (and there were boards in both packs that were 18" plus) was as good as we get off our planer and we didnt have to empty the DC a single time.

    Handling chips and sharpening knives are two of the biggest money losers for us. Letting them feed the chips into their boilers to dry wood is far better than us heaping them up and burning them.

  6. #66
    Mark, I remember the pics....fine material. The worst wood (and everything else in shops) is bought by employed "buyers". They often buy lousy materials and ask for big salary increases for their ability to find cheap stuff.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    Mark, I remember the pics....fine material. The worst wood (and everything else in shops) is bought by employed "buyers". They often buy lousy materials and ask for big salary increases for their ability to find cheap stuff.
    Yeah, well the sucky thing is the final fill in order we had to bring in (we were short a few hundred feet so just brought in a 647' pack of RGH Sel/Btr from the only supplier that had any) is basically dog "poop" (for the puritan mods that wont let me abbreviate the "S" word).. AND we are left surfacing in house which I absolutely despise.

    Surfacing your own material is just a full on dead loser for us.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    4,973
    Quote Originally Posted by jack duren View Post
    The skill level has lessened.I'm considered an antique. Us cowboys are about gone...
    I am definitely an dinosaur myself. I am too old and stubborn to change my standards to suite the flighty millennials, but have enough old school customers to get by as long as I can do this.

    And, like Joe I am in it for the sport these days, I only take jobs that entertain me. I am building a house, inside a building, that will be hauled out and set with cranes on a pedestal right now, serious steel structure, superinsulated, with steel and brass trim inserts in the casing and cabinets. About $600 a sq. ft., but interesting and challenging.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton View Post
    I am building a house, inside a building, that will be hauled out and set with cranes on a pedestal right now, serious steel structure, superinsulated, with steel and brass trim inserts in the casing and cabinets. About $600 a sq. ft., but interesting and challenging.
    I for one was eager to see the drawings. That one sounded like a SUPER fun job.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    924
    Great video. Thanks for letting us amateurs peer into the world of professional production.
    Rustic? Well, no. That was not my intention!

  11. #71
    Mark, around here most of the time when I want material surfaced, it goes through a planer/sander. I'm pretty sure they're sanding with 100g too.

    Some places though, you can tell they haven't changed blades in the rip saw since Clinton was in office, and the planer has done 100k feet since the last sharpening.

  12. #72
    JR, why the .024" oversized on your rails? That seems like an odd number? Or do you just have the fence set to cut strong even though you're punching in the rail length?

    I take a 1/16" off of each end when I cope, just because adding an 1/8 to most numbers is easy.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Mark, around here most of the time when I want material surfaced, it goes through a planer/sander. I'm pretty sure they're sanding with 100g too.

    Some places though, you can tell they haven't changed blades in the rip saw since Clinton was in office, and the planer has done 100k feet since the last sharpening.
    Hence my quote about waterbourne. I dont know that Ive ever gotten a stick of material that went through any form of sander. Its SLR (which is fast and rough) and a two sided planer (likely with onboard sharpening). You can easily see early on in a load of material that has been run through a sh*t set of knives. The linear defects show themselves straight away. That said, the one mill that we pull from most commonly doesnt suffer from this. We still sand to be safe but again running waterborne puts us at greater risk for headache.

    What we each have availbility to locally changes the dynamic drastically.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Dawson Creek, BC
    Posts
    1,033
    It is nice to see all the pro's sharing. I always get annoyed over sizing doors, and then final sizing later, but I see that's how it is done. I got a CCW cutter head for my setup to try. It makes no sense what so ever considering the time, but I am an odd duck.

    Larry, it was that darn Mark guy that got the idea of prepped stock rolling around my head after I saw that nice pile of lumber on his trailer. I annoyed a bunch of suppliers and then gave up for now. I think finishing is the worst, sanding next, then stock prep. I suspect you ship things for finishing. My list of finishers is even worse than my lumber suppliers, so...

    Martin, that will be a great help having a friend to help. You have a great plan, and it will be nice to see it when you get it all set up.
    Last edited by Brad Shipton; 02-10-2018 at 8:46 PM.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Brad, in many respects, it now makes sense to me about oversizing and if you have a nice oscillating sander like Martin's, it makes it very easy to fine tune the fit. It's easier to remove material than it is to rebuild something that's too small!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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