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Thread: Oneway Varigrind arm setting for bowl gouges

  1. #1
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    Oneway Varigrind arm setting for bowl gouges

    I have always followed Doug Thompson's recommendation to set the Varigrind to about 3 notches from the bottom. However, I finally read the Oneway manual, and it recommends setting the arm to the bottom position.

    Since using Thompson gouges and the first setting, I have noticed that my tips tend to get pointy and the sweep is a little dramatic for me.

    However, this has me thinking...

    Which arm setting on your varigrind do you use? (I'm not talking about the V-Arm distance; strictly the angle on the Varigrind...

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    I use Doug's recommendation. A little tricky if you try measuring the exact angle because the bottom of the leg is rounded and doesn't come to an exact point.....so your kind of eyeballing it if your trying to measure it to a template but I get a heavy 23 degree angle to the bottom of the gouge in this picture. Works for me but realize others use different settings and other versions of this type of jig.

    Wolverine1.jpg
    Member Turners Anonymous Pittsburgh, PA

  3. #3
    I use Doug's setting and have from the beginning. The profile of the tip of the gouge depends in part on how much time one spends on the sides vs. the tip. Generally, I want the profile of the tip to replicate the profile of the flute viewed with the gouge upside down, if that makes sense. So, for a V gouge, it is a bit sharper than for a D-Way parabolic flute, and a lot sharper than for a U gouge.

    Left click my name for homepage link.

  4. #4
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    John is right if your tool is getting pointy spend more time on tip of the gouge.

  5. #5
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    When you watch Doug Thompson's video you learn that you adjust the jig distance from the wheel to match the bevel on the tool. This essentially means that variations in the amount the tool is projected from the jig, the angle of the riser (leg) of the jig, etc., are, maybe not quite order-of-magnitude settings, but ranges. The length from the wheel to match the bevel is the 'fine-tuning' required to get your desired bevel.

    Try a dry run (no grinder wheel turning) of different jig settings and see if you can match the bevel.

    OBTW, if you look at Doug's picture of the jig setting you realize that the line from the riser leg to the tip of the tool is a straight line. Which also means that with a protractor, you can set the jig to any preferred angle. The key to getting that angle is the distance the Wolverine support arm is extended from the wheel.

    Compared to the RoboRest with one angle setting, the Wolverine Jig has 3 variables, the riser leg angle, the tool projection from the jig, and the sliding support arms distance from the wheel. All of this leads to the guideline to match the bevel. Or, know you are changing the bevel angle.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    I have always followed Doug Thompson's recommendation to set the Varigrind to about 3 notches from the bottom. However, I finally read the Oneway manual, and it recommends setting the arm to the bottom position.
    I really like Doug Thompson and his tools but I don't much care for the grind he uses on any of his tools, gouges, skews, etc. They are good starting places though, especially for beginners. I use both the Varigrind and Tormek gouge jigs as well as sharpening freehand with just the grinder platform. The wonderful thing about the jigs is once you get a grind you like sharpening it to keep that grind is so quick and removes very little steel! I use a 1200 grit or 600 grit CBN wheel with the jigs.

    I ignore the tool and jig makers but listen to the woodturners. You might find this video useful, especially the segment starting at about 24:30 by the other John Jordan.
    https://vimeo.com/111139564

    All these types of jigs are similar. I'm headed out in a bit and don't have time to comment on the details but this chart from Tormek might be interesting as it shows examples of how two of the variables can influence the grind, the leg angle and the bevel angle and with the "stick-out" constant. Of course the chart can't cover the biggest variable, as mentioned, how much time is spent on which part of the grind.

    The JS setting changes the angle of the leg. Edge angle is the bevel angle, changed with the distance of the pivot from the grinding wheel.

    tormek_gouge_table.jpg

    JKJ

  7. #7
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    Oneway has a sharpening video on their website. It gives a good starting point.
    Joe

  8. #8
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    Boy, he looks young in that video. It was made maybe 30 years ago? I never heard before the way he describes the varigrind jig: the leg angle determines the front bevel, and the sliding arm distance determines the side bevel. I always have used the sliding arm distance to determine the front angle.

  9. #9
    Prashun, the most important point to take away from all of this is to find what works for you. I decided early on to play with my gouge grind until it worked for me. I settled into Doug’s setting for the varigrind, a 2” extension, and those are constant for my bowl and spindle gouges. The only variable I change is the v arm extension and I have that scribed with the three angles I use. My arrangement may not work for you or anyone else, but it works for me and my style of turning. IMO consistency is the key - being able to replicate my grinds.

    So, find what works for you and ignore all else. One can get caught up in a never ending cycle of trying the grind of every known turner and accomplish little except grinding away gouge after gouge.

    I am sure this advice will disturb some folks!

    Left click my name for homepage link.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Keeton View Post
    Prashun, the most important point to take away from all of this is to find what works for you. I decided early on to play with my gouge grind until it worked for me. I settled into Doug’s setting for the varigrind, a 2” extension, and those are constant for my bowl and spindle gouges. The only variable I change is the v arm extension and I have that scribed with the three angles I use. My arrangement may not work for you or anyone else, but it works for me and my style of turning. IMO consistency is the key - being able to replicate my grinds.

    So, find what works for you and ignore all else. One can get caught up in a never ending cycle of trying the grind of every known turner and accomplish little except grinding away gouge after gouge.

    I am sure this advice will disturb some folks!
    What John said..........wish we had a "Like" button.
    Member Turners Anonymous Pittsburgh, PA

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Nathal View Post
    Boy, he looks young in that video. It was made maybe 30 years ago? I never heard before the way he describes the varigrind jig: the leg angle determines the front bevel, and the sliding arm distance determines the side bevel. I always have used the sliding arm distance to determine the front angle.
    I agree it's different but an interesting perspective for matching an existing grind. I like to gather lots of ideas then decide for myself.

  12. #12
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    Let me throw you a curve ball. Stuart Batty gave some lessons at our turning club. He and especially Bob Bergstrom (Woodnetter) showed me how to put a 40/40 grind on a bowl gouge. I was a newer turner and was uncomfortable at first not using a jig but it's quick and natural now. A RoboRest is the perfect grinder attachment for this.

    Mike

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Goetzke View Post
    Let me throw you a curve ball. Stuart Batty gave some lessons at our turning club. He and especially Bob Bergstrom (Woodnetter) showed me how to put a 40/40 grind on a bowl gouge. I was a newer turner and was uncomfortable at first not using a jig but it's quick and natural now. A RoboRest is the perfect grinder attachment for this.

    Mike
    I watched all of Stuart Batty's demos at the TAW symposium and I have ground gouges that way - it's not hard at all. The grind he teaches is great if you do the type of turning he does.

    Chris Ramsey also doesn't use a jig to sharpen gouges for his wonderful cowboy hats. He barely uses the tool rest. I took this terrible cell phone photo of his grind - I added the red to show the actual bevel:

    Ramsey_gouge_comp.jpg

    OTHO, Glenn Lucas makes constant use of the jigs. I'll have to look in my notes to remind me of how he sets the jigs.

    BTW, I think Stuart is an incredible turner and great demonstrator; I listened and took careful notes. But I took a lot of what he said with a grain of salt, for example, most of his comments on the skew.

    JKJ

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Keeton View Post
    One can get caught up in a never ending cycle of trying the grind of every known turner and accomplish little except grinding away gouge after gouge.
    I've seen that more than once! New demo, shorter tools.

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