Switch to Metric? Yes or No

[andrew whicker]

I think as far as woodworking is concerned, we can all agree either one works fine.

But as far as engineering, science, etc when you have to make calculations like force, torque, power, etc. you find out pretty quickly that metric is the gold standard. 1000 grams = 1 kg or 16 oz = 1 lbm. Oh, and what is a lbm vs lbf. Oh, and everyone just abbreviates it lb. Nice. That makes things easier.

[Ted Reischl]

Rod, one of my points is that the Metric system is also completely arbitrary. The meter (m) is defined as the length of the path traveled by the light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second. That divisor cannot get much more arbitrary. Of course any measurement system is arbitrary.

I have worked in both systems for longer than I can remember. For woodworking I find that the imperial system seems to make more sense. For other disciplines, like astronomy, not so much.

[Doug Garson]

I would suggest that those who prefer the imperial system do so because they grew up with it and work in an environment where the imperial system is the norm. The metric system seems foreign to them even though it is a more logical system (even if the base unit is arbitrary). I would include myself in that category. I'd like to hear from anyone who grew up with the imperial system and moved to and work in a country where the metric system is used, say 10 or more years ago. Which system do you prefer? Alternately anyone who has done the reverse? If you grew up with the metric system how are you finding the imperial system? Note I would not include anyone moving to/from the US and Canada as we are not a pure metric country but more of a hybrid.

[Howard Rosenberg]

Interesting question.

Officially, we've been metric here in Canada since the mid-70's.

I'm only speaking for myself but I'm a tiny hybrid.

In other words, I think in metric everything except for the length of objects. The length of a table or a bookcase etc? Imperial. Distance, temp, weight, volume - all metric.

When I'm mapping out projects, the only place I use metric is to measure up to about 10 milimetres (a centimetre.) Anything longer confuses me! But up to 10 mm is way more precise than fractions.

If you think you're interested in investigating the metric system for calculations, I'd recommend downloading a fractional calculator app for your phone. It's for use with the Imperial system but it's a lot more accurate than doing the arithmetic by hand. And no room for Imperial-to-metric conversion error.

Howard

[Keith Outten]

Keith, it is all about the money.

That said, when the automotive industry, and many others are already metric, you're lucky to be able to afford to refuse their business.

We'll all eventually be working in metric..............Regards, Rod.

Rod,

I'm 66 years old and we were told that we were going to convert to the metric system in Junior High School so we had classes to prep for the change. I expect it will take at least two more generations before fractions cease to exist.

[Jerome Stanek]

T
My shop doesn't have one machine that is setup for the metric system and if I was purchasing a new machine today it would not be one that didn't support the imperial system directly, in fact I would not even consider a duel mode machine because of the risk and because I'm just to dang old and set in my ways. I have received requests from government agencies to bid on various jobs the last few years and they sent me drawings with measurements in the metric system. My response was that if they could not send me a drawing with imperial dimensions I would no bid their job. I will not take the chance of making a mistake converting one system to another, the financial risk is unacceptable and they may as well send me documents in a foreign language.

Its all about the money...

Keith your shop has a CNC and Laser and both will switch to either so yes you do have a duel mode machine

[glenn bradley]

Wow, this one really got a lot of traction . They taught us metric and threatened full conversion a couple of times in school, even changed all the speed limit signs out here once in a typical great use of tax dollars. I can use either but, prefer imperial. Certainly this is partially due to being primarily raised on it.

The result of a few false starts during my lifetime is that I am comfortable estimating volumes and short distances in either. My estimation of metric speed is pretty useless but, 'about' 25 mm to the inch works visually and we all know 'about' the length of a 100 mm cigarette. My 35 years of octal, decimal and hex at work has done something to my brain. I find it almost like a serotonin spike when thinking in imperial. Thinking in fractions soothes my mind when I am in the shop. It is certainly nothing to go all Ford/Chevy or Tastes-Great/Less-Filling over .

[Ted Derryberry]

9mm or .45 ACP?

[Grant Wilkinson]

Rod: You are correct. I should have said that in Canada, we seem to be the only "metric" country using pascals or really kilopascals for pressure - other than France. Elsewhere, millibars and bars are used.

I'm 68, so grew up with Imperial, but many of the cars that I worked on growing up were european, so metric wrenches have been in my kit for a very long time. Renaults, VWs, Morgans, MGB's etc, were always metric as far as I know. I must admit, too, that driving at 120kph seems so much faster than driving 75mph - a neat mind game. Also, it makes it easy to figure how how much longer I'll be on the road. Take the "mileage" on the road sign and divide by 2 and I instantly get the number of minutes I'll be driving.

Doug: You have me there. :-)

[Keith Weber]

9mm or .45 ACP?

Definitely .45 ACP -- You want to stop it, not poke holes in it!

[Steve Demuth]

Then there is the really, really big gripe! All those little lines with no small markers to define divisions. Those lines are about 30% closer than 1/16th divisions. Harder to see and work with.

This is the one substantive problem I have with Metric in the woodshop. I can mark and cut to 16ths of an inch very easily. I just can't do it with tenths of a mm - measure, yes, mark, no. I'm sure that's a skill all the millions of people who work wood in metric have acquired, but it's pretty clear that in my 7th decade, I will never be a natural with .1 mm increments.

[Steve Demuth]

My 35 years of octal, decimal and hex at work has done something to my brain. I find it almost like a serotonin spike when thinking in imperial.

Yes! I find binary factions entirely natural. But I also find decimal fractions entirely natural. I use both inches with binary fractions and metric with decimal, often on the same project. Then I switch to metal machines, and use inches with decimal fractions. Really it's no different than being equally comfortable with typescript, Java, C++ and assembler. Use the metaphor / measurement that solves the problem.

Until you have to work with others. Then agreement on the language matters. Which is why, ultimately, the US should be metric. Sooner is better.

[Malcolm McLeod]

... 35 years of octal, decimal and hex at work has done something to my brain. ...

Metric and imperial are for sissies! I do everything in my shop in biquinary. (go ahead, find such a Stanley tape ...I dare ya.)

Don't believe me? Well OK, but I thought about it once!

[Halgeir Wold]

Hi guys.... It's all about what we are used to,- it's that simple. I grew up with metric, but in my work I have used also used imperial for decades, and the conversion is actually quite simple once you get used to that too. Some here say "It's too difficult with only meters and millimeters" - in common day speech most europeans use meters and centimeters- millimeters are for construction and precision work, - and tenths or thousands of millmeters, of course. I am an electronics engineer, and when designing cicuit boards, I use tenths and hundreds of inches, as that is the most common pitch for component sizes - it's really all about habits....
Some here say that "metric is just a set of arbitrary measures", - both false and true. The SI system was devised for making a common set of measures for scientific and everyday use, and to get rid of the problems with measures being different between countries and even regions within a country. Old measurements was a source of a lot of confusion and even downright scams and fraud. The meter was originally defined as being one ten millionth part of the distance from equator to the north pole, as calculated and measured by surveyors from the french science academy, - and twelve official platinum prototypes were made, and public copies were installed at several places throughout Paris, for people to observe. The wavelength of light or distance of light travelled stuff, is the modern method for exact reproduction of the unit.
Imperial measures is as you know not an US invention, rather an inheritance from the British Empire, with measures that actually are more arbitrary the the scientifically based metric system, - even if some of the SI units appear to be arbitrarly defined, a lot of the imperial units actually dates back to rather poorly defined roman measures......
"A mile is the distance of a thousand paces" someone wrote.... I'd like to see the man who spans 1.609 meters in one pace.... and where is the logic and fractions in a mile which is actully 5280 feet, or 1760 yards - or even 63 360 inches...
No offence - I find these metric vs imperial discussions quite amusing, and I often pull the legs of british and US collegues on this matter....

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod,

I'm 66 years old and we were told that we were going to convert to the metric system in Junior High School so we had classes to prep for the change. I expect it will take at least two more generations before fractions cease to exist.

You're probably correct Keith, it does seem to be a very slow process in North America for some reason....Rod