Help with a router table project

[Mike Holbrook]

Very helpful Jerry. I have been shopping coping sleds. The fence on my Bosh router table does have a T slot in the top, trying to figure out what might work with that slot. Good point about the sled working on the fence, not the miter slot, just the kind of thing I may have missed.

My buddy, who got me started in woodworking, is missing the end of a finger, lost to a router table. My right hand still has issues due to a chipper shredder ripping a limb out of my hand and whacking me in the head with it....just a couple months ago. A sled sounds like a great idea. I may use a GRR Gripper I bought years ago for my table saw until I figure out how to attach a sled.

PS
Now I see! The coping sled does not attach to the fence, at least the Woodpeckers one does not. There is a depth adjustable guide that just runs up against the router tables fence. Too bad they just do not include the better guide/fence with the sled. Higland, here in ATL carries them at the same price as Woodpeckers. Amazon’s price is actually higher.

It looks like these sleds are specifically designed to do end grain, copes? I guess the sled can be used like a GRR Ripper push tool, to hold a longer board against the fence too though.

[Jerry Miner]

The coping sled does not attach to the fence,

Correct-- but the guide is at a fixed height and just rides against the fence.

Too bad they just do not include the better guide/fence with the sled.

The "guide" is included. The fence on your router table looks like it would work fine.

t looks like these sleds are specifically designed to do end grain, copes?

Yes. Hence the name: "coping sled"

[Mike Holbrook]

Got it. I am trying to figure out how to work with rails, tenons, half laps..... specifically what the limits of the “coping sled and its guide” are? I am aware the sled itself has a 5 1/2” W x 1 1/2” thick capacity. The Woodpeckers video on using this sled mentions a larger, longer guide that it says is “optional”. The video suggests that this larger guide may be necessary for making lap joints, tenons....

I am trying to figure out if I should locate & order the larger guide too, if I order the sled or go pick one up. I suspect I can make my own guide with clear plastic or some other tough clear material if I find I need it. All it takes is more time.....

I am trying to figure out what other guides/jigs might be handy for handling longer pieces......

[Jim Dwight]

I do this as a hobby but built one kitchen with oak raised panel doors plus other pieces. I have a bit set like you show and a stacked set and may still have one you take apart and reconfigure for the coping versus the sticking.

The bit on the right in the picture from the box is the sticking bit. The one on the left is the coping bit. I cut the coping first because the sticking will help remove chip out. I use a sled but did not always. A square piece of wood or plywood about 6 inches square or bigger will work fine. You just need something to help you hold the piece at right angle to the fence and to help reduce chip out. I would take a scrap and give it a try. You need to decide how much of an edge you want on the face where it goes straight back before the decorative cut. That is a key dimension for the bit setup. I think both your bits are made to cut with the face of the stock on the router table top. If they are well made and you put a rubber O ring into the collet of your router, you may be able to switch between bits with minimal height adjustment. I don't know of a better way to figure this out than to take a bit of 3/4 scrap, softwood is fine, and make a little door frame. If you mess up a joint, cut it off and try again. I usually start with overly long pieces so I can do this on my real work. Even though I've done this many times it can take a cut or two to get back into the swing of things.

Your router should do the cope and stick cuts in one pass. I've used a PC 690 many times for this and it is less powerful than your Bosch. You have to slow down the raised panel cutter and take multiple passes, however. Even if your frame is 1 inch your panels do not have to be.

I like to use pressure treated outside. If I was doing a bunch of shutters like you describe, I might buy some 1.5 inch thick pressure treated and plane it down. It tends to be wet but this time of year is better than summer time to get it. Sometimes you can find some that has been sitting in a home center for several months and is less wet. PT takes paint well once it is dry. I would not use MDF. I don't like it in general and especially not outside. It is bad to work with. I've made raised panels out of it and shutter louvers out of it but you really need dust collection on your router table when milling it. The dust is nasty.

I like Amazon but normally get router bits from MLCS. They are inexpensive too with quick service. If you go to their website they have good instructions and videos on making raised panel doors.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks Jim,
Good suggestions. I will check out MLCS. I just bought a GRR Ripper 200, GRR-RIP BLOCK Smart Hook and a Micro Jig Deflector Connector. This combo looks like it will do most of the things a coping sled does and maybe a few things a sled does not do. The GRR items will also help me on the bandsaw, tablesaw and lunchbox planer. I have had a single GRR Ripper for quite a while and found it useful on the table saw.

I probably should not have mentioned MDF in regard to the material I am using for rails & styles/copes. If you read up a post or two you should find another poster who knew what the material is. It is a totally waterproof product. I even tested it to make sure. It is the product builders use now for outside trim. My panels are made, see original picture. They were made from 1” stock but my hand planes have reduced them a little and probably will for the final product too.

You are correct about the dust issue. I was at Ace Hardware yesterday buying an adapter so I can hook up a Festool vacum to my router fence. Still does not quite fit but I will make it work ;-)

[Mike Holbrook]

I thought I would do an update regarding the MicroJig/GRR Ripper items I bought. There is a new “Advanced” GRR Ripper. The new model offers more router related features. First off, there is a sliding base piece which can be pushed up against the outside edge of the wood being worked, similar to the sliding base on coping sleds. The sliding base is great for holding small pieces tight & secure against the fence. The sliding base is available as an upgrade kit too. Another optional piece is the Deflector Connector, which is a clear piece of plastic that can connect two GRR Rippers or serve as a clear fence/blade guard similar to the one used on a Woodpeckers Coping Sled.

I thought about buying the Woodpeckers Coping sled, which I am confident is a better system for working copes. I decided to upgrade my GRR Ripper/MicroJig gear instead as I think they are more versatile/adaptable to tablesaws, bandsaws, routers, planers.......I think one can approach the same abilities the Woodpeckers Coping Sled offers by using multiple GRR Rippers. I think two GRR Rippers will be better at handling longer pieces of wood. The idea of using the same system on tablesaws, band saws, routers and planers was also attractive to me.

GRR Ripper also makes a simpler push block/push stick replacement. The GRR-RIP BLOCK Smart Hook Pushblock for Router Tables, Jointers and Band Saws. This pushblock has hooks on either end that extend or retrack, depending on whether they contact a surface or not. The hook(s) can engage against the rear edge of a board to provide the increased pressure ncessary to push larger work pieces over a router bit or tablesaw blade. The grips/rubber on these devices have a little higher relief and may provide improved purchase. I bought one of these as I thought it would work well with the older GRR Ripper or the new advanced model.

[Mike Cutler]

Mike

I'd be interested to see a photo of your Gripper adaption to a coping sled. I have a shop made coping sled for my shaper, but I always like to see someone else solutions.
If you're making doors on that small table, that's pretty darn good. That's not a lot of surface area.

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Mike,

I would suggest you go to YouTube and search GRR Ripper Advanced, GRR-RIP BLOCK.......You will find lots of videos about these products that cover the features better than any picture I could provide. You may find the sliding base feature the most relevant.

The Bosch table is 27” long x 18” deep, larger than most tabletop units. If I find the bench top table to be to small, I will insert the detachable, metal table in a piece of plywood that will fit in the cabinet it is sitting on, which is 44” wide x 22” deep. The router will then be accessible through the door of what use to be a bathroom cabinet, built to accept a sink. The on & off switch and the two plug receptacle (under the table) are mounted in small panels that can be removed from the base and attached in another location too. The whole metal table top, not just the router base insert, is made such that the whole thing can be mounted in a larger cabinet. I am playing with what cabinet height will work best for this multi-function cabinet, soon to have interchangable table tops and maybe casters. The rear of the cabinet now has a folding counter top attached, only visible in the last picture, which serves to hold work pieces...It is a work in progress.

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[Mike Holbrook]

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I made these two set up blocks from 1 1/8” scraps using the new GRR Ripper 200, with slidding plate.

Addapting GRR Ripper for coping:

https://youtu.be/McLgffSg65A


Pick this video up at about 3 minuets, to see how the slidding plate on the newer GRR Ripper (GRR Ripper 200) can help on a router table.

https://youtu.be/YE7xYu_DR_Q

I found the following video very helpful regarding using cope & stick router bits in a router table.

https://youtu.be/NwxOGYhVEe4

[Nick Decker]

I have a Gripper and use it quite a bit, but I gotta say that some of the stuff in those videos makes me nervous. I have this feeling that if something went wrong and the wood got thrown, you might see the Gripper itself becoming a missile too. I say that having had, early in my routing experiences, a chunk of oak that I was cutting get thrown out of my hand when the cutter hit the grain wrong. Anybody else?

[Mike Holbrook]

Nick not sure what you saw in the video that put you off? I found a label on the end of one of the boards. The “wood” product is Miratec, probably similar to the Extera Mel mentions above. I was very pleased with how it worked on the router table. It was much easier to work, with less tear out than the SYP I am also using. I have been able to leave thinner pieces with the Miratec too. The SYP tears and splinters much worse, not to mention the cupping....I did have to use a top finger board on the Miratec as longer pieces tended to rise up (due to the product flexing) in the center when ends got far off the router table. An off feed and top finger board fixed the issue.

I can see the advantage of a good router lift. There are too many tricks and things to remember using the set up I have.

[Nick Decker]

Mike, I was just relating what I was seeing to my own experience of losing control of a piece of wood while routing it. I know more now about why it happened (my fault), so maybe my discomfort with the video is just me. Another thing I've learned is that if what you're about to do makes you feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

On the other hand, I find the recent rash of safety police raids around here to be tiresome, and would not like to be perceived as preaching to anybody. I plan to look into getting one of those larger sliding plate thingies, looks like it would be a useful add-on.

[Mike Holbrook]

Nick I hear you. Machines worry me too. Yesterday I was sawing a weird piece of wood on a Dewalt compound miter saw which I have done more times than I could count over the last 30 years. Somehow the saw grabbed this piece and threw it. My right hand is still recovering from a chipper shredder ripping a push stick out of my hand and whacking me in the head with it.... months ago. I tried doing this project with hand tools but I was not able to match the shutters that were made by a mill with larger machines.

I bought the GRR wood guides because I thought they were better at more things. If I continue to use a router table to make copes & sticks I may buy a better router lift and maybe the Woodpecker Coping Sled. The bottom plate on the GRR does come in handy though. There is a small hook on the outside corner of the plate which helps keep the piece steady. The big difference in the GRR and a real coping sled is one still holds the workpiece by hand when using the GRR. The GRR device is made more to help on a table saw being oriented more towards moving right to left along a fence and preventing movement up off the table. I tried using a second GRR device to hold copes in place, but the pieces I was using did not fit the device well. There is probably a way to do this that I have not figured out yet. A “real” coping sled is made more to hold the work piece against the fence without having to hold it there by hand, which may have been where your concern was.

[glenn bradley]

Grr-Rippers enjoy a love/hate reaction among forum posters. I'm a fan. The large plate and attaching fixture shown in post #24 has been sold as the GR-200 for many years. I think I got mine in 2007. These pics are from 2008 and I'd had it awhile and enjoy the safety of milling small or thin material with consistency and confidence.

Grr-Ripper (2).jpg . Grr-Ripper (4).jpg

The t-slots allow all sorts of shop made mods and add-ons. There are various notches to allow temporary fastening to backer boards and whatever.

Grr-Ripper-Catch-1.jpg . Grr-Ripper-Catch-2.jpg

For those thinking about joining us folks that use the heck out of our Grr-Rippers, just watch for a sale. They are offered in pairs or with a model upgrade (GR-200 at a GR-100 price) or with extra parts now and again if you can bide your time. I have a collection of spare legs, plates and other parts that I have picked up along the way at a steal at woodworking shows or from someone who bought one and didn't like it.

All that being said my shop made coping sled uses a miter bar so the fence is only there to bring the dust collection port close.

Bottom.jpg . Cope Sled-(1).jpg

Your Grr-Ripper/coping sled solution looks like a winner.

[Nick Decker]

Mike,

I have the Woodpeckers' coping sled and, like most of their tools, it's very good. I wish they had included a clamp for whatever you use for a backing piece to prevent tearout, but that can be rigged up if you feel it's necessary. As is, you can't get enough lateral clamping force to keep your scrap piece from riding up. Also, the larger plexi shield/fence is a must, IMO.