Help with a router table project

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been working on a project to replace a few shutters on the front of our house. I started out trying to do the project with hand tools but ran into snags. I just bought a new Bosch router table and router that fits the table. Most of my prior work with a router was done on an old Freud router table and an old router and I wanted to finally get this project done with familiar tools and methods.


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The router table is mounted on a cabinet I built for a variety of clamping, gluing needs. Yes, it has a Festool top so I can use Festool clamps to clamp things to it. On the right side of the table are the 8 panels I glued up and raised with hand planes. The green shutter on the left is what I am attempting to match. The yellow bits are three: rail & style & pannel raising bits. There is a piece of test wood on the table. I am tryng to figure out how one might go about getting the rail & style bits to cut matching profiles that glue up properly? I believe the standard method entails a major amount of trial and error. Maybe there is a quicker way?

The rails & styles on the original shutter appear to have warped, soaked up water and rotted. The orignal shutters are made of 1” thick stock, which box stores typically do not carry. I found a supply, probably a special trim board order, at Lowes by luck one day and bought all the decent pieces they had. I made the raised panels using the Lowes wood. I bought the stock for the rails and styles from the only supplier I could find who had 1” thick trim stock. The rail and style stock is actually water proof pressed MDF. I originally thought this might be a good thing as the waterproof pressed wood should not warp or rot. Now I am wondering if the rail & style stock can handle being routed without breaking?

[Jim Becker]

For complimentary rail and style cutters, having a setup block that is already pre-matched for height, etc., will greatly speed up the setup process. Many "purveyors" of rail and style cutter sets offer a pre-made setup block and IMHO, they are worthy of the few shekels they normally cost. Yes, you may still need to do minor tweaking because of stock thickness, etc., but it cuts out a whole lot of trial and error. Alternatively, make your own once you get things zeroed in on scrap stock identical in size to what you use in your projects. Mark them and put them where you can remember they are for the next time. I'm about to take advantage of that in a coming project to replace the upper cabinets in our kitchen with deeper ones. I need to run new face frames and new doors...and still have the setup blocks I made for the Shaker 15º set I bought back in 2003 for the original work.

As to the MDF stock...I don't know that I'd use that for this kind of project without supplementing the joinery with something like a Domino or other longer tenon for more glue surface that fully engages the stock above and beyond the coped joints that the cutters produce. Honestly, I'd probably do the same even if it was solid wood for an outdoor application like this. But that's me...

[Mike Holbrook]

Jim,
Thanks for the great advice. I did find “set up” blocks like you mention. Unfortunately, I had previously ordered a less expensive rail & styl set that does not appear to offer those. As you suggest I have been trying to make set up blocks with scraps, which I hope may also help me determine the viability of the material. I guess you remembered that I bought the same Domino you have not long ago. Thanks for the guidance there too, if I forgot to thank you at the time.

I have given some thought to just making a large rabbit in the rails & stiles. I was thnking Domino’s, glue and calk might hold the panels in place. I went with the “cheaper” bit set because I mostly wanted to experiment with how they would work with different materials vs rabbits....

I may need to build cabinet doors at our new home in North GA. I will go with simpler “Shakerish” designs there as the home will have a rougher more basic design theme. The shutters will serve as a skill builder.

[Jerry Miner]

If these are operable shutters, I don't think I would use mdf for this purpose, as it does not have much stiffness or strength. If the shutters are only decorative, and mounted to the wall, then you'll probably be OK. Trial-and-error is the method I use, but I start with a desired profile cut into a piece of scrap and set cutter height to match the cut in the scrap.

A bigger issue I see here is your router table set-up. It looks like you are feeding your stock between the bit and the fence. DON'T DO THIS!!
It is dangerous and could easily ruin your stock when the bit grabs and throws the stock. Instead, bring the fence forward-- flush with the router bearing-- and run the edge of the stock against the fence and cutter.

Jim's advice to add a Domino is good. I would do the same. Is your cope-and-stick (aka stile-and-rail) set made for 1" stock? Many sets are for 3/4" material only.

[Lee Schierer]

The problem with making a groove for your panels to sit in in an outdoor application is that water will get into the groove and stay there. Eventually the wood will rot.

The big box stores are not good places to purchase lumber. Generally you will get better product from a true lumber yard (not 84 Lumber). Since you live in Georgia you should be able to get some cypress. Suwanee Lumber isn't very far from you and their website says they carry cypress.

[Mike Holbrook]

Jerry,
The existing shutters are on hinges and they have keepers to hold them in place, however the shutters would not cover the entire window so they are more ornamental. Good point about the fence in the picture. I was actually just placing objects in the picture that could be refered to. The point you make about the bit position relative to the table is well taken. I would not set up that way to actually use the table and bit though. The piece of “wood” on the table is a narrow strip of the actual wood I am trying to make rails & stiles from. I have been making different cuts in narrow off cuts in an attempt to get matching profiles. I was trying to show the profile cutting bit up against the actual wood I am using.

Here are pictures of the box the bits came in. I thought I was buying bits for 1” stock. I was not thinking about using the panel raising bit for this project as I have the panels made, see top picture of the 8 panels I made. The panel raiser was in a kit for $5-10 and I thought it might be nice to have.

A589331C-7D48-42BB-8E42-A48C94BC60F7.jpg D5CC056B-D491-46E0-A58E-7B3B9E4B2D57.jpg

I am a new Domino user. I do not see a way to use a Domino to Join the rail and stile these bits make. Is the suggestion that I just make a large rabbit, less profile & more room? I do have 1/2 and 1/4” guided round over bits and 1/2” guided rabbit cutting bits as well. I can make a top profile that looks like the existing shutters with a simpler router table mounted round over bit. Such a profile would leave more room for a larger rabbit that I could use Dominos to attach the panels to.

Lee,
I bought the boards I have from a local lumber and building supply vendor. I was told that the “trim” I bought was what is being used to make outdoor trim by mills and builders. It is the required 1” thick. This is different than most “MDF”, it is actually waterproof. I soaked a piece in a bucket of water for several days to test it. The “wood” did not absorb any water at all. It can also flex a good amount without breaking. It is more like one of the plastic & wood products “Trex” than regular MDF.

I have a Steel City lunchbox planer, but it is at our new home at the moment. I was trying to avoid having to buy thick stock and thickness plane it to the needed thickness.

[Jim Becker]

Mike, cut the slots for the Dominos before you mill the profiles for the cope and stick... They do not have to match up with the profile in any way...they only need to reference the same face on each piece to line up.

[Ole Anderson]

I built new doors for my son's kitchen using soft maple rails and styles and MDF raised panels. The panel raising bit worked fine in the MDF using 3 or 4 passes, but you better have good dust collection in place. When I redid all of my fascia boards after a hail storm, I used Miratech 4/4 x 6" trim boards at about $2.25/bf. They were a composite trim designed for exterior use. Flexy, but easy to work with. As with most composite boards, the surface seems more dense than the interior. I have no idea how it would stand up to rail and style bits. However with an exterior glue, it should stand up to the weather and not rot. I would give it a try.

$5-$10 for a raised panel set? Must be a typo, they sell for over $50, still cheap at that price. I can assure you, those are NOT industrial router bits as I am sure you are aware. I have the Summerfield set that has served me well but it was 3x the price.

Using a composite, don't try to do the full profile in one pass, with any of the bits, use 3 or 4 light passes.

[Jerry Miner]

OK Mike-- glad to hear that you're not running stock between bit and fence.

Lee makes a good point about the bottom groove holding water. There are 3 approaches to dealing with this: 1. Drill some weep holes in the bottom rail, 2. Caulk the panel in (with a good flexible caulk-- as the panel will expand/contract) 3. Use rot-resistant rail material (which you are doing).

You can cut Domino joints after milling the parts. Half the joint is in the panel groove (use a Domino sized thicker than the panel groove width) and the other half in the stub tenon. You'll be limited on depth in the stile portion (by the plunge depth of the Domino)-- but you'll have enough to strengthen the joint. (Plunge depth will be less on the rail portion-- to account for the length of the stub-tenon).

You may still want to use the panel-raiser on your panels in order to get a good fit in the panel groove. (You can remove the back-cutter if you want)

[Mike Holbrook]

Sounds like I can cut Domino holes before or after cutting the profiles in the rails & stiles. This is where I was worrying about tearing the composite wood up. I got use to doing one pass round overs for other projects. I am starting to understand in this project I need to just do multiple passes. The Bosh router table insert actually has a graduated scale on either side of the bit. I have been using it to make sure the bit protrudes exact distances, so I suppose I can just move the fence set distances to make multiple passes?

The entire bit set, was around $48. I could have bought just a rail & stile bit from the same vendor. The difference in price above was an approximation of what it cost me to add the panel cutting bit to the set. I am Amazon Prime member which does occasionally produce “deals”. I am aware that these sets may cost double or tripple from more recognized vendors. Most of the other bits I have were made by Whiteside, Amana.....I bought the cheap bits to give me an idea of whether I wanted to invest in a more expensive set later. Understand too that I prefer to do projects with hand tools. I was looking at this project more as a one time thing. Still there is the time it takes to do a project and I may need to make cabinet doors in the near future. I figure I can make a better router table from the parts in the Bosh router table. The actual table is metal as is the insert. The fence is also nice. There is a good dust pick up too...

I am more comfortable doing grooves , dadoes, round overs on a router table anyway. I know those can be done easily and fast on a router table. The jury is still out on whether or not I will try to make cabinet doors with the gear I have in the future.

I am wondering if more experienced machine users than I would attempt to make rails & stiles, with the 2.25 hp Bosch router and router table and materials I have, or drop back to using Dominos to hold the panels in simpler rabbits? I suspect the better simpler router bits I have and the medium sized router might work better than trying to push the limits with the more complicated profile bits, which are lesser quality? I bought the cheaper bit set as more of a trial run at using those bits. They seem to work if I do multiple passes but not sure if they will make it through the project without destroying the wood.

[Jerry Miner]

I am wondering if more experienced machine users than I would attempt to make rails & stiles, with the 2.25 hp Bosch router and router table and materials I have,....

Well, I probably qualify as a "more experienced machine user"--- but I have not tried cutting cope-and-stick joints in mdf. I would expect it to be a little bit challenging for your router and bit set--- but probably do-able. I would try a joint or two in scrap and see how it goes (I like to cut these joints with a single pass-- no moving of the fence-- and with a coping sled (and bigger router) but I think there is hope here).

If you don't have--or want to make-- a coping sled, you can use a square piece of stock--or plywood-- as a "pusher" to make the cope cuts. If you feed slow and smooth, your router should be able to make the cuts in a single pass. I would try it.

You can always fall back to Plan B and use rabbets/grooves with/without a beading profile.

[Mel Fulks]

If you have the EXTERA brand mdf ,I've used it for projects that have been out side for years,and I like it. I think there are
some mdf brands that claim some "water resistance ",I would not use those.

[Mike Holbrook]

Jerry,

I planed a piece of SYP to match the miter slot in the router table a couple days ago. I got caught up in sled design and have not finished it yet. Maybe I should glue & screw it to a piece of plywood and see how it works before getting too absorbed in making somethng nice. What size is yours? Any chance of a picture or link?

Mel,
I suspect this is a similar or identical product. I ripped the surface & paint off a piece with a band saw and placed it in water for a day or two. When I took the piece out of the water, the water drained off leaving an almost dry surface, no water was absorbed.

[Jerry Miner]

Mike-- I use the Woodpecker's coping sled:

Woodpecker Coping-Sled-2-8-18.jpg

I prefer a system that uses the fence rather than a miter slot. It's easier to keep things lined up: flush the fence to the router bearing and everything else just rides on the fence. If you use the miter slot, you will need to either make the fence exactly parallel to the slot or ignore the fence and use an alternate stop system for setting cut length.

Before I jigged up to use the miter slot, I would just use a square piece of scrap as a "pusher" (I did this quite a bit before I got a sled). A piece of adhesive-backed sandpaper on the edge of the pusher will help keep the stock from sliding as you feed it past the bit. You can clamp the work to the pusher also---but I typically just used hand pressure to hold the work-- a little risky, perhaps, so use a clamp if you're not comfortable.

[Jerry Miner]

Here's a sketch of what I mean by a "pusher":

Coping Pusher 2-8-18.jpg