Space needed for dust collector closet

[Thomas Crawford]

I figure I'm going to start out without a closet which pretty much means I'll never build one. I'd rather put it in an add-on as Charles suggests but I don't want to suck all the A/C out of my room in the summer.

[Andrew Seemann]

I mounted my cyclone and built the closet around it. That way I could minimize the footprint to what was slightly larger than essential for access access and maintenance while leaving the most room in the central shop. It also meant that I didn't have to worry about not taking something into account that would become a problem from not anticipating it, like the angle the filter off the main body, etc.

I also much prefer my cyclone and compressor as sound insulated as possible. I used a bunch of extra acoustic ceiling tile left over from the main shop ceiling for the inside surfaces of the closet, over the OSB walls. I have some loose fit by the filter and some a little back of the outlet (at the undersides of the doors) to try to intercept some of the sound on the way out. I vent the cyclone inside to save on heat in the winter and to conserve the AC in the summer (otherwise the humidity gets way too high in the shop).

[Charles Lent]

Put the dust collector and your air compressor in a shed addition on the outside of your shop with an insulated wall between the shop and them. Your ears and nose will thank me.

Charley

If the return is placed inside the shop most of the noise will remain outside in the shed addition, or, You could just put a return grill through the wall from the shed and leave the filter in the shed with the dust collector. I don't have a large dust collector, yet, but my 80 gallon 5 hp compressor is in a 6' X 10' shed addition on my shop with room for a "someday dust collector. Doors let me access the shed from the outside. The wall between my shed addition and shop is fully insulated, which significantly reduces the compressor noise, but the shed is unheated. If I was to have the dust collector in there too, I would fully insulate all the shed walls and ceiling for temperature and humidity control much like the shop environment.



Charley

[Jim Becker]

Charlie, I agree that returning the air from the exterior shed is important, but a direct grill is not a good idea, because that will just transmit the noise back into the shop that the shed is supposed to suppress. The return needs to be "bent" so there is no direct sound transmission. That can be done using very large flexible (soft) HVAC air return duct that takes an indirect path or by building a baffled hard return, etc.

[John K Jordan]

Charlie, I agree that returning the air from the exterior shed is important, but a direct grill is not a good idea, because that will just transmit the noise back into the shop that the shed is supposed to suppress. The return needs to be "bent" so there is no direct sound transmission. That can be done using very large flexible (soft) HVAC air return duct that takes an indirect path or by building a baffled hard return, etc.

I agree with Jim. I tested this and ended up building a baffled return duct that changed directions several times. I sprayed a rubber coating inside and insulated the outside. I built mine to snake up through the trusses in the attic space so it may look a little odd. With the 5hp cyclone running I can still hear a whisper outside the closet while standing just under the return. The duct has two baffles visible on the side view drawing.

Dust_collector_baffle_small.jpg

I don't know if I mentioned it earlier but my closet with the DC and air compressor has a 5' wide insulated double door which opens up into another room in the shop, away from the wood shop. A lot of noise comes through the door into that room but it's facing away from the wood shop. The closet wall on the wood shop side is built with staggered stud construction to eliminate sound transmission through the studs. This type of construction is sometimes used in sound studios, or at least it used to be.

JKJ

[Carlos Alvarez]

I'm in the process of building an outdoor mini shed for my DC and cyclone. I had the heat thought at first then realized that, well, it's moving a hell of a lot of air... It might even run cooler in a closed space with more airflow. My enclosure is 2' x 5', but I don't think it's possible to recommend a size for others' equipment which is different from mine. I'm simply housing an Oneida steel cyclone with 17 gallon container and a 3HP motor with a 12" blower. I could have made it shorter if I let the tubing protrude or used sharp bends. But being able to make gentle bends, keep the tubing protected, and have quick-disconnect capability for emptying the cyclone meant more space. I plan to leave a gap from the sides to the base for the air to flow out. I will not have any secondary filters; the cyclone is the only filter. This means new air will always be flowing down past the motor and out.

My reasonings for the design choices (this will be our fourth or fifth iteration of DC):

1. Reduce noise in the shop. I hate wearing PPE. I want to remove dust so I don't have to wear anything. I only wear hearing protection for the planer. The other tools aren't dangerously loud.

2. Move fresh air in. We always work with the garage door open anyway, and either a fan or swamp cooler blowing in. Might as well move in even more air. You can't really remove the cooling from a swamp cooler, it works with lots of air flow.

3. Space. The previous DC wasted a lot of space (Powermatic 3HP dual canister).

[Charles Lent]

To get the very fine and most dangerous dust out of your air stream your need a secondary filter, or vent your dust collector to the outdoors. Bringing that very fine dust back into your shop and lungs isn't making your shop any safer, just cleaner. The micro fine dust gets past the cyclonic action, so you need the secondary filter to catch it. If not, you should be venting the dust collector to the outdoors, which will get rid of most of the dust collector noise too, but also your heated or cooled shop air.

Charley

[Carlos Alvarez]

To get the very fine and most dangerous dust out of your air stream your need a secondary filter, or vent your dust collector to the outdoors. Bringing that very fine dust back into your shop and lungs isn't making your shop any safer, just cleaner. The micro fine dust gets past the cyclonic action, so you need the secondary filter to catch it. If not, you should be venting the dust collector to the outdoors, which will get rid of most of the dust collector noise too, but also your heated or cooled shop air.

Charley

Not sure if that was in reply to me, but I agree about the fine dust. So I will NOT be returning any air into the shop. It's all outdoors, and in a place where it really can't find its way back into the shop. Drawing the shop air out, and new air in, is a feature not a bug in my environment.

People who return the air do need to pay close attention to this. I've seen setups with a big vent back into the shop that holds a standard HVAC filter, seems to work well.

[Marty R Schlosser]

I'm wanting to provide sound-dampening to my cyclone system, but am wanting to keep from enclosing the impellor motor because of how hot the Baldor 3hp, 220 volt motor gets. My idea is therefore to enclose everything from the motor down to where the cyclone's cone begins. My thinking is this will isolate the majority of the sound-generating parts, while allowing the motor to breathe and make dumping the drum easy.

Any thoughts on this approach would be apprecieated.

[Carlos Alvarez]

I'm wanting to provide sound-dampening to my cyclone system, but am wanting to keep from enclosing the impellor motor because of how hot the Baldor 3hp, 220 volt motor gets. My idea is therefore to enclose everything from the motor down to where the cyclone's cone begins. My thinking is this will isolate the majority of the sound-generating parts, while allowing the motor to breathe and make dumping the drum easy.

Any thoughts on this approach would be apprecieated.

Heat can't be an issue if the system vents into the same space as the motor. The small air space will be turned over many times per minute, and will actually cool better than open air because it's always moving air over the motor. I'm currently building this which will be closed on all sides except for a 4" space to the rear, and small gaps in the bottom sides. So any air/dust/sound escaping is directed to the ground and the wall behind it (it's going outside, but same principle would work indoors with filters).

IMG_1032.jpg

A lot of the sound (most?) seems to come from the air outlet and the motor housing itself. My steel cyclone also seems to have its own noise. So I'd want to enclose all of those parts.

[Jim Becker]

Marty, I've never perceived any heat issues with the motor on my Oneida unit with the whole thing (including the filter) enclosed in the sound-deadened closet.

[John K Jordan]

Heat can't be an issue if the system vents into the same space as the motor. The small air space will be turned over many times per minute, and will actually cool better than open air because it's always moving air over the motor. ...

Note that some cyclones don't move air directly over the motor. The 5hp Clearvue I installed has the motor on top and only the impeller is in the direct air stream. In a closet the only air moving over the motor is what comes through the filters and migrates under towards the exit duct. Some people fashion their return ducts to pull air from near the top of the closet so it will pull some of the warmest air out of the closet moving some past the motor, however I pull air from the bottom of the closet. Even with extended use the motor stays well within spec so heat is not a problem.

This drawing shows the design:

cyclone_top.jpg

This is the only installation with which I have experience - I have no idea if others would melt and catch on fire.

JKJ

[Carlos Alvarez]

I'm not aware of any setup that does move air directly over the motor (other than the motor's own fan). But in a small space, 1k CFM+ is going to exchange all of the air several times per minute, forcibly moving air over nearly every surface. But I think we agree on the bottom line; that cabinet will never heat up.

[Jon Snider]

If the return is placed inside the shop most of the noise will remain outside in the shed addition, or, You could just put a return grill through the wall from the shed and leave the filter in the shed with the dust collector. I don't have a large dust collector, yet, but my 80 gallon 5 hp compressor is in a 6' X 10' shed addition on my shop with room for a "someday dust collector. Doors let me access the shed from the outside. The wall between my shed addition and shop is fully insulated, which significantly reduces the compressor noise, but the shed is unheated. If I was to have the dust collector in there too, I would fully insulate all the shed walls and ceiling for temperature and humidity control much like the shop environment.



Charley

Charley. I’m thinking something along these lines, to hold both a compressor and cyclone. I plan to vent the DC outside and also, I’m told, need some room closet ventilation for both motors. Do you have any problem with your compressor in an unheated room? I could always add a vent b/w shop and closet wall but that kind of defeats the purpose of both dust and sound mitigation.

Im in Colorado so we have plenty of below freezing weather.

Ideas from any others also welcomed. Thx.

Jon

[Carlos Alvarez]

I've got mine running and being used. I hung a temp probe in the cabinet, and it actually gets cooler while running. I assume because the sun has heated up the cabinet (even though it's well shaded). But bottom line, there's no heat buildup.