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Thread: Wanted: A good tutorial or technique

  1. #1

    Wanted: A good tutorial or technique

    I do signs and low relief and incised carving to enhance the signs. Recently I have found the love of my life: Power Assisted Chorse.jpgarving! I use that term because typing out " Carving with a reciprocating handpiece on a Flexshaft" is long and boring!
    I want to draw patterns for incised carvings of animals, humans and other wildlife. I am attaching a jpg image of a horse that I found on the Internet to show what I'm talking about. This type of pattern drawing lends itself well to incised decorative drawing.

    PROBLEM: I'm not very talented when it comes to art! I believe though, that this type of pattern drawing could be learned as a skill but I can't find any tutorials or techniques that I could learn to do this. Can anyone and everyone please comment and help be come up with some resources? I don't want a complete course on drawing that I would have to wade through just to get to the part I want.

    Thanks,
    Paul

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul handley View Post
    PROBLEM: I'm not very talented when it comes to art! I believe though, that this type of pattern drawing could be learned as a skill but I can't find any tutorials or techniques that I could learn to do this. Can anyone and everyone please comment and help be come up with some resources? I don't want a complete course on drawing that I would have to wade through just to get to the part I want.
    Hmm, that's a hard one. If you don't now have drawing skills you'll first have to learn to see and draw what you see. I don't think any of the time invested in any kind of drawing would be wasted in working towards your goal. Rather then think of it as "wading through" something you won't use I'd think of it as building basic and necessary skills. A drawing class? Private instructor? The only way I know to proceed without a teacher is to just start drawing. Draw dozens of the same thing until it looks right. Then make dozens of drawings of dozens of other things. Thinking back of the years of drawing I did I don't know of any substitute for practice, practice, practice. Start carrying a sketch pad and draw everything you see. I hate to sound discouraging but most people I know who are good at drawing and illustrating started when they were kids. This doesn't mean you can't learn it if you are motivated, I just don't know any shortcuts. (Actually there is a shortcut thousands of people use: find a drawing you like and copy it, changing it enough to call it your own. I personally couldn't live like that. I once had someone copy one of my illustrations and publish it with their name on it.)

    I think the drawing is actually the easy part, the real expertise for the style you show is in deciding the minimalistic strokes that will greatly simplify the detail but still show the form. If already good at seeing and drawing I'd probably start by looking at everything I could find that was something like what I wanted to learn, internet, clip art, etc. Then copy it (freehand by looking, not tracing), then draw three or four more of the same then add some variation in lines, thickness, curves, expressions. Then get a plastic model of a thing, a face or a horse, for example, and practice drawing the same pose looking at it, first in a similar pose then at different angles.

    If I wanted to draw something in the style you showed I would do this: sketch the thing in pencil, outline the basic shape with minimum details (eyes, etc), add lines as needed to "suggest" the form, ink in those lines, then continue to widen and ink in lines (such as on the horse's mane) until it started to "look right".

    In wood I sometimes just carve freehand after sketching first in my mind. Maybe start with something easy like letters.
    chip_script.jpg
    I've done a lot of carving with a reciprocating carver, rotary carvers, and hand tools, but my favorite is with a chip carving knife as with the letters shown. I find it easier to make flowing curves with this method. The horse illustration you showed would be easy for a chip carver. (Maybe look at some chip carving books?)

    BTW, anyone can give an opinion so I should describe my experience and "credentials". I don't consider myself an expert artist but much of my work before I retired involved creating graphics, art, photos and illustration for scientific and technical things. I have been drawing for years though, animals, people, nature, fantasy, patterns, architecture. This is a pencil sketch I did of a friend.
    david_obanion_IMG_5150_s.jpg

    JKJ
    Last edited by John K Jordan; 02-03-2018 at 8:06 PM.

  3. #3
    My experience with carving and marquetry is that if you have artistic talent you'll do a lot better than people like me who have none at all.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #4
    Thanks John! Your examples look great. I wish I did have talent. Unfortunately all the art talent went to my brother and sister and bypassed me! I transferred the horse pic to poplar and cut it using a v gouge. I was amazed at how easy it was to do the thick and thin portions in one cut, following the curving line as I needed to; plus the poplar cut very smoothly with no fuzzies as with basswood.

    Looking on the web, I found some good examples on shutter stock that I can copy. While learning, I don't mind copying others' work but I would never sell it as my own! That is unethical and against the law in some places.

    The thing is; as I commented in another forum. If you copy a pattern, say one of Lora Irishs', that she sells; then the carving is a craftwork. If you draw the pattern AND do the carving, it's art.
    I'm 75 and have been learning to draw and carve for most of my life. Maybe I'll get there some day!
    BTW: what is this style of drawing called? Maybe if I can get a name for it I can find examples and tutorials easier.
    Paul

  5. #5
    Try basswood for carving. It's very straight grained and not too hard. The famous carver, Grinling Gibbons, mostly worked in linden which is the English name for basswood.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  6. #6
    Mikes's work has an unusually nice painterly depth. I think that takes some real talent.

  7. #7
    John, MORE fine work. That hair treatment is super. The "short sheeting" is interesting and artful ....and would never occur to me.

  8. #8
    Thanks Mike but Basswood is expensive as I have to order it or get it from Woodcraft or Rockler, both of which charge too much. Lowes used to sell Aspen, which is almost as good, but apparently they no longer carry it. Basswood is also hard to find in 1 inch boards which is what I use. Carving is a pure hobby for me. I'm not learning the craft in order to sell my work. I worked all my adult life to make money and now that I'm retired, I'm going to enjoy myself! So, If I spend money on equipment and supplies, I'm not going to recoup any of it.

    It's another reason I turned to "Power Assisted carving chisels". I can carve hardwood as easily as you carve Basswood. Since it supplies a steady forward thrust, it also reduces accidents caused by slippage. You ought to try it! It's like drawing with a pencil on paper.
    Paul

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul handley View Post
    Thanks Mike but Basswood is expensive as I have to order it or get it from Woodcraft or Rockler, both of which charge too much. Lowes used to sell Aspen, which is almost as good, but apparently they no longer carry it. Basswood is also hard to find in 1 inch boards which is what I use. Carving is a pure hobby for me. I'm not learning the craft in order to sell my work. I worked all my adult life to make money and now that I'm retired, I'm going to enjoy myself! So, If I spend money on equipment and supplies, I'm not going to recoup any of it.

    It's another reason I turned to "Power Assisted carving chisels". I can carve hardwood as easily as you carve Basswood. Since it supplies a steady forward thrust, it also reduces accidents caused by slippage. You ought to try it! It's like drawing with a pencil on paper.
    Paul
    Yikes, don't buy basswood from those places unless you have too much extra money to get rid of! When I took up chip carving I ordered Northern basswood from Heinecke in Wisconsin. I bought 2", 3", and 4" thick boards 48" long and 8" to 12" wide. They do sell 4/4 stock but it would be easy to resaw thicker pieces. The stuff is beautiful, clear wood, great color, perfect for carving. I don't remember the cost but I do remember I thought it was reasonable - far, far cheaper that what I bought from some local stores including a well-known carving shop. Shipping was by UPS and was cheaper than I expected. Call them since they have more than they advertise on the web site.

    Heinecke Wood Products in Wisconsin http://heineckewood.com/

    I agree with what you said about power carving for harder woods - I've carved cocobolo and other exotics, bradford pear, mahogany, and more - I usually finish up with hand tools. BTW, I was informed by chip-carving experts to not use southern basswood for chip carving since it is faster growing and not as fine-grained as the northern stuff. However, since people carve a variety of species I'm not sure the southern basswood would be unusable, even for chip carving. A friend brought me a couple of roughsawn basswood boards that probably came from a southern sawmill - I made some practice boards from one and it worked fine for chip carving. If you live near or happen to drive through this area stop in and visit and I'll share what I have left of the 4/4 basswood boards.

    As for chip carving, once I figured out how to sharpen the knives correctly I found the carving itself easy - as usual, the hard part is coming up with a design and laying it out!

    In case you are interested, here are some early practice pieces and some actual things (sorry for the duplication, I've posted these here before.) My goal for learning chip carving was to carve on things I make on the lathe.

    practice_comp.jpg chip_carved_goblet_c.jpg chip_mess.jpg BOC_A_comp.jpg BOC_C_Jack_01_IMG_6687.jpg

    I even made the sign for my shop which describes it fairly accurately.

    Hey, I've been retired for going on 12 years now. My thoughts on recouping any "investment" is the same as yours - I don't even want to think about it! If I tried to it would seem too much like work and I'm having too much fun now.

    JKJ

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    John, MORE fine work. That hair treatment is super. The "short sheeting" is interesting and artful ....and would never occur to me.
    Thank you Mel for the kind words! I had fun with that drawing and like how it came out - somehow it actually looks like the person. (Be assured I'll not post pictures of my sketchbooks full of terrible drawings!)

    I like drawing in pencil best - I'm not too good with colors. However, I'm *that* close to buying an airbrush to try a venture into color on woodturnings. Good friend John Lucas inspires me with some of his work. I don't remember if I posted this picture on SMC before but here is an example of his subtle use of color:

    eclipse_mirror_lucas_500671_1.jpg

    John L. made this hand mirror for me after we watched the solar eclipse last August.

    JKJ

  11. #11
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    Yup, Heinecke's up in WI is the place to get bass wood. I order from there and the quality is always superb. I bought some WoodCraft stuff years ago. Crazy expensive and it was obvious it had been sitting on the shelf a long time once I started carving it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by paul handley View Post
    Thanks Mike but Basswood is expensive as I have to order it or get it from Woodcraft or Rockler, both of which charge too much. Lowes used to sell Aspen, which is almost as good, but apparently they no longer carry it. Basswood is also hard to find in 1 inch boards which is what I use. Carving is a pure hobby for me. I'm not learning the craft in order to sell my work. I worked all my adult life to make money and now that I'm retired, I'm going to enjoy myself! So, If I spend money on equipment and supplies, I'm not going to recoup any of it.

    It's another reason I turned to "Power Assisted carving chisels". I can carve hardwood as easily as you carve Basswood. Since it supplies a steady forward thrust, it also reduces accidents caused by slippage. You ought to try it! It's like drawing with a pencil on paper.
    Paul
    That's interesting. Around here, basswood is pretty cheap and it's carried by my local hardwood place (Austin Hardwoods). The commercial people use it for some cabinet work.

    It's in S4S 4/4 which is really less than 1".

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  13. #13
    John, your carvings are beautiful! I have done some chip carving, but I will not post the pictures. If you make a small mistake it throws the whole thing off. I like to to cut letters with a chip carving knife though and they're good at cutting the small serifs but that technique can only be used in soft woods. I wish I knew what that thick and thin technique is called though, it would make it easier to find on the web. Does anyone know? I think I could use a felt tip calligraphy pen to achieve thick and thin lines. One other question. Who sells the best, most comfortable chip carving knife?
    Paul
    Last edited by paul handley; 02-04-2018 at 6:43 PM. Reason: spelling

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul handley View Post
    Who sells the best, most comfortable chip carving knife?
    Paul
    I use three knives. (Ha, I say "use" but besides demonstrating and a little teaching I've actually done very little chip carving since my first four months of learning and carving a few years ago - too busy with the farm!) One knife is a Wayne Barton, the modified one from My Chip Carving, and a Hock knife. The Hock came the closest to being usable out of the box. The other two required a great deal of effort to get them ready to use, I think the Barton was the worst.

    The problem is the knives need to be quite thin at the cutting edge with a long taper back towards the spine of the blade in order for the knife to glide through the wood. I shaped mine to about 9-12 degrees included angle. (Diagram below.) The actual angle is the age-old tradoff - too small and it's too weak, to large and it doesn't cut well. The knives as purchased have bevel angles WAY too big which make cutting chips way too difficult or even impossible. Learning chip carving as a beginner is hopeless if he don't know the knives have to be reshaped before sharpening. In fact, I bought a Barton knife years ago, tried it, and immediately gave up, then put it away for 10 years. It was only until a couple of years ago I realized the knife was useless until it was reshaped.

    chip_carving_knife_angles_c.jpg

    The Barton looks like a copy of the traditional Scandinavian chip carving knife and is perfect for most things. The MCC modified knife is has a sharper point from the side view, allowing it to cut sharper curves better. The Hock is made with a different shape and is somewhere between the other two at the point. However, any of these could be reground for a different point.

    BTW, I really like the My Chip Carving sharpening system, four strips of extremely fine abrasive adhesive strips on a flat board, use with water. Then strop with compound on leather glued to a board. The edge is unbelievable - easily the sharpest tool in my shop besides perhaps a single-edged razor blade.

    I think the handles are all equally comfortable. I think it is MCC which has a handle kit with a moldable handle you can customize to your grip. This might be especially great for people with hand issues or prone to cramping.

    These are the Barton and MCC knives:
    chip_carving_knives_small.jpg

    For chip carving inspiration take a look at Bill Johnsons creations: http://www.carolinamountainreefs.com...d-aquatic.html
    I visited him once a couple of years ago then sent him some wood turnings I made from basswood for him to carve on: some ornaments, a goblet and a small squarish dished platter:
    chip_goblet_basswood.jpg penta_chips_smaller.jpg

    Bill is a nice guy and he knows his stuff. I would recommend one of his group or private classes for someone getting started or who wanted to advance their skill.

    Sorry, I have no idea what the style of drawing is called. I just call it illustration. Maybe stop in at a school and ask an art teacher.

    JKJ

  15. #15
    Maybe stop in at a school and ask an art teacher.
    Thanks, John. Now that's a good idea! At least one in my town, plus although my sister paints in oils, she might know.
    oops thought I'd add this: Registered for a drawing forum called Drawing Now and got a clue as to the technique: You don't use a felt tip calligraphy pen like I thought. It is just a regular drawing pen. you draw the curving line and one parallel to it and then fill in!

    Paul
    Last edited by paul handley; 02-04-2018 at 10:37 PM.

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