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Thread: Anxious to try a new tip tool

  1. #1

    Anxious to try a new tip tool

    I'm asking for opinions on the Kelton Multi-Axis Scraper. I'm open to alternative brands, as well
    I just want to try one new tool to see how I like them and getting a smooth finish inside a bowl or vase is a big problem for me.
    I have many, many odds and ends from estate auctions, HF and yard sales , as far as HSS turning tools and am slow at learning how to properly sharpen them, so....

    I tried to edit the subject to read "new" instead of carbide but was unable to figure out how.
    Last edited by John K Jordan; 02-02-2018 at 4:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    changed title

    I changed "carbide" to "new". I think when you edit you have to click on "Go Advanced" to edit the title.

    JKJ

  3. #3
    How about an opinion of the tool, John.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Jobe View Post
    How about an opinion of the tool, John.
    I have no knowledge or experience with it. From the ad it looks a lot like the Sorby multi tip tools but with an unnecessary articulating head at a much higher cost - I have three Sorby tools that use similar curved scrapers (and hollowing tips) and use them often on the insides of things, especially for vase-like forms that I want glass smooth inside.

    I can imagine the Kelton doing anything I can't do with the Sorby. Send me one and I'll test and compare.

    For smoothing the inside of a bowl I haven't used anything better then these negative rake scrapers (except where i use hand scrapers):

    scrapers_neg_rake.jpg

    I use them without handles. I keep two "right handed" (concave surface to the right such as a normal bowl inside) and one "left handed". I ground them from two Thompson scrapers and a Thompson skew chisel. I saw Glenn Lucas use NRS sharpened like this.

    JKJ

  5. #5
    Thanks John. I have a couple of flat ended scrapers that I could grind down. I don't have much luck using them as is.
    I bought them at an auction of a retiring wood craftsman and they were very well sharpened when I got them. But they always seem to want to grab. I thought perhaps I could grind them into the style you have or a "V" grind with the scraping edge in the center. They are .255" thick. Made by Craftsman.
    Sound like a good idea?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Jobe View Post
    Thanks John. I have a couple of flat ended scrapers that I could grind down. I don't have much luck using them as is.
    I bought them at an auction of a retiring wood craftsman and they were very well sharpened when I got them. But they always seem to want to grab. I thought perhaps I could grind them into the style you have or a "V" grind with the scraping edge in the center. They are .255" thick. Made by Craftsman.
    Sound like a good idea?
    Maybe grind one of the wide ones and see how you like it. It's very easy to get a catch with a "normal" scraper and the finish isn't all that great. It's very difficult to get a catch with a NRS like I showed, they are easy to use (hold flat on the rest, horizontal) and the finish can be far better. I seldom use shear scraping any more.

    I used an 80 grit CBN wheel to shape mine - it takes a lot of grinding to sweep the side back that far. If your old tools are not HSS be careful about the heat at the grinder, of course.

    I use a teardrop scraper on this tool for getting inside a vessel with a wide enough opening where someone could feel the inside:
    https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p...Hollowing-Tool

    JKJ

  7. #7
    Well, I'll give it a try. They aren't being used in their current design.
    Just water or do you add some water soluble coolant?

  8. #8
    Bill I'm not too sure this is what you are asking for but the easiest tool I have found for getting a smooth surface inside a hollow form is the D-Way hollowing scraper. Usually I hollow with a small cutter head leaving a less than ideal surface, I then scrape the inside with a 'tear drop' shaped scraper but lately I have found that Dave's scraper which is has a bigger radius than the high speed cutters and is thicker than my 'teardrop" scraper does a really good job if light finishing cuts are used.
    Pete


    * It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for life - Sister Elizabeth Kenny *
    I think this equates nicely to wood turning as well . . . . .

  9. #9
    Bill, I have that tool. It is beefy and very adjustable at the same time. Mine is adjusted for the transition area of steep sided calabash type bowls and doesn't get changed but is ready when the wood is problematic for a bottom feeder gouge. Overall I like it now that the purchase price is forgotten.

  10. #10
    I remember looking at the multi angle Kelton tool when Kel first showed it at one of the symposiums. My first thought was that there was nothing that it could do that I couldn't do with conventional scrapers, and I have a number of them. I only use scrapers flat on the tool rest for heavy stock removal and shaping. I shear scrape with hand held scrapers, and tend to leave NRS (negative rake scrapers) for end grain work. I have a video up on shear scraping if you are interested which shows some customized scrapers I use for the inside and outside of the bowl.

    robo hippy

  11. #11
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    One more thing to consider is sharpening. I frequently have trouble sharpening inserts if i leave them on the tool shaft. I have much better results removing the insert and sharpening them by holding them flat on a platform. The Kelton scraper has a hole in the scraper rather than a slot, so you would need to remove the set screw entirely to remove the scraper insert. Sort of a nuisance.

  12. #12
    Those who make their own scraper by altering an existing tool, what angle of cutting edge works best and do you grind a second angle near the cutting edge?

  13. #13
    Pretty much all of my standard scrapers are set at 70 degrees. For the second angle, well, there are two variations. One way is to relieve/grind off the heel of the tools. This is common on inside bowl gouges, and I tend to do it to most of my scrapers. More so if it is a thick scraper. Mostly if your platform is off just a hair, you have a shorter bevel to grind down. The other variation is for grinding off the top of the tool, turning it into a negative rake scraper (NRS). There are a lot of variations here, from about a 25/25 (top/bottom angles) to 80/25. Very delicate burr which is gone in seconds.

    robo hippy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Nathal View Post
    One more thing to consider is sharpening. I frequently have trouble sharpening inserts if i leave them on the tool shaft. I have much better results removing the insert and sharpening them by holding them flat on a platform. The Kelton scraper has a hole in the scraper rather than a slot, so you would need to remove the set screw entirely to remove the scraper insert. Sort of a nuisance.
    Is it about 1/8" thick? I used to sharpen this type of scraper/cutter the way Sorby recommended but I've started sharpening them the way Stewart-McDonald suggests in the video on this page for their hand scrapers: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...e_Scraper.html
    (The StewMac scrapers are great, I've been using them on wood turnings. Very good steel.)

    JKJ

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I have no knowledge or experience with it. From the ad it looks a lot like the Sorby multi tip tools but with an unnecessary articulating head at a much higher cost - I have three Sorby tools that use similar curved scrapers (and hollowing tips) and use them often on the insides of things, especially for vase-like forms that I want glass smooth inside.

    I can imagine the Kelton doing anything I can't do with the Sorby. Send me one and I'll test and compare.

    For smoothing the inside of a bowl I haven't used anything better then these negative rake scrapers (except where i use hand scrapers):

    scrapers_neg_rake.jpg

    I use them without handles. I keep two "right handed" (concave surface to the right such as a normal bowl inside) and one "left handed". I ground them from two Thompson scrapers and a Thompson skew chisel. I saw Glenn Lucas use NRS sharpened like this.

    JKJ
    Well John, how did I do?
    Not much of an edge on it yet. Wasn't sure how sharp you grind them.
    I realize it ain't as pretty as yours but I just have a cheep HF grinder and did it freehand.
    What I did do was try to get the curve as smooth as possible. And, I dipped it in water after every 2 or 3 seconds so I would not damage the hardness of the steel.
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