I just work in decimal inches and don't care what the manufacturer of the tools or material intended. About the only time it's really an issue is for bolts and nuts on equipment. I finally bought an assortment of metric nuts to keep in the shop.
Member
I just work in decimal inches and don't care what the manufacturer of the tools or material intended. About the only time it's really an issue is for bolts and nuts on equipment. I finally bought an assortment of metric nuts to keep in the shop.
Contributor
Every Festool I own has an annoying feature, and that stupid step thing is the Dominos. Who says I want to work with the thickness they spec? Maybe I want to offset? Stupid design.
Dewalt biscuit joiners have what should be in the Festool.
Contributor
Hi Bill, since I design my furniture going metric made a lot of sense.
Instead of 3/4" thick pieces I use 20mm, same for 2" and 50mm, nobody gets out the micrometer to determine if the table leg is 2" or 50mm. Plywood in North America has been metric since the 70"s or early 80"s, as the North American Council adopted metric standards then.
Most of the tooling in the world is metric, so I can buy many 30mm bore shaper cutters for less money than 1 1/4" bore.
it's far easier to add numbers in the metric system than adding 57/64" to 9/16" and then dividing by 2.
The standard for kitchen cabinets is the 32mm system, takes a bit of learning however it makes so much sense, and all the hardware is designed to work with that standard as well
Jim touched upon the difficulty of obtaining metric measuring tools in the USA, however that's only true if you're shopping at the Borg. Lee Valley provide mail order service in the US, and machine shop suppliers will have machinist squares, and steel rules in metric.
As Jim said, once you try it out for a while, you won't go back....................Rod.
P.S. If you're building a shed and the plywood is 4 X 8, stick to that method, however for furniture or custom work, leave the Imperial system behind.
The funny thing is that the US standards for calibration are all metric, and have been for about a century as there no standards for the Imperial system except those derived from the SI system.
Moderator
Rod, measuring tools haven't been a problem...things like router bits with metric radii, etc. don't seem to exist. I don't even see them at Axminster in the UK for some reason! But that's no big deal and easy to compensate for..
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
A table might be fine, but when my customer orders a set of 3-0 x 6-8 doors 1-3/4" thick I'll be danged if I'm going to build them using the metric system. That's just asking for mistakes on my part converting them to metric and then keeping everything straight instead of working in the system they're specified in.
I've built one table for a customer. I'm sure if I told them it was 300 cm long they'd have said, "That's too big! We only need it to be 10' long!"
Contributor
Interesting Jim, I don't own a router so I wasn't aware of that.Originally Posted by Jim Becker
All my shaper tooling is metric with respect to radii.............Regards, Rod.
Member
Not read a lot of the responses, but if this is redundant i apologize. First off dead center don't matter just get it close. Only thing you need to know is reference the same surface on all the pieces and you are good to go. I would lay out my pieces pre-assembled and make A/A,B/B, C/C, D/D marks on the pieces and draw a pencil mark to align.
Now just use the same surface and set your dept and go to town. Only recommendation I have is also use the tight setting on one face and the next widest setting on the mating face. This will give you a bit of wiggle room to align the faces. Works great and that was a great little tool. I bought it when it first came out. Sold it for almost what i paid for it, and bought a floor m&t machine (not because of any defects in the domino), it just fit my needs better i.e. dealing with smaller stock.
Cheers.
Contributor
Jim,
Just curious . . . Why do you feel that the Domiplate improves the process for the Domino. I own the Domino and have never really found that where the Domino is located in the joint is particularly important as long as it's close to the center. Usually, the fact that it isn't centered is a plus for me, avoiding assembling the joint incorrectly. As long as I use the same reference face the joint goes together flawlessly whether it's a regular M & T joint, a plywood glue up, or a solid wood glue up to a wider panel. For me, it is possibly the only tool I own which is self-sufficient without accessories like the Domiplate. That doesn't mean I haven't bought some but I don't find they add anything. Just curious really. Everyone has their own way of doing things.
[OP]
Member
Got the Domino on Thursday and made a bunch of joints today for the kitchen hutch. I cut 30 joints in a couple of hours. It almost feels like cheating. No fitting with a chisel and shoulder plane, everything perfectly flush and square, really awesome.
The hardest part for me was getting used to going by marks instead of layout lines. I cut a couple in the wrong spots at first, but they'll be hidden and were easy to patch with a Domino.
Member
Congrats.
You'll find more learning points as you use the DJ down the road. Mortising middle shelves for a bookshelf is a technique worth learning as it has more applications than just shelving -- used properly, you will see the use of dadoes significantly reduced in your work. My dado set has been collecting dust and is used only for rabbeting work. Another domino skill to develop is to join bevel pieces at complementary angles (the simplest form is a miter; but when you master the angle fence, you can handle very tricky angled joints).
A common shop mistake we see is people forgetting to change the depth of cut, resulting in cut-through blunders which may or may not be fixable depending on the show faces. One trick to avoid that kind of mistake is to mortise pieces in ascending order of depth. In other words, whenever possible, finish all the pieces that have the shallower mortises before you move the next batch of pieces that have deeper mortises. This way, if you forget to change the cutting depth, you can fix it by remortising them at the proper (and deeper) depth.
There are too many domino tricks to share (I have practically made all possible screw-ups one can think of over these years), but planning ahead and marking all your pieces will prevent tons of the possible mistakes for you. By the time, you can cut and assemble a three-way miter joint, you graduate -- without fear. That is the ultimate joint test for a domino fanatic, if you ask me, because even Tage Frid confessed that every three-way miter joint was a tough one for him. To me, he was the furniture making dean.
No matter what you do, dry-fitting is a must (and that is why, cutting your mortises slightly off center is a virtue).
Simon
Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-03-2018 at 10:32 PM.
Contributor
You can the step thing out of the way, and set the table position to anything you want -- just like your biscuit joiner.
Member
+1.
The steps are just for convenience and not essential for the use of the DJ. Using the steps to set depths will guarantee zero fence drift for those who are not using the proper way to set the depth.
Simon
Contributor
Sure you can, but it is a clumsy piece of crud compared to a good system. Who needs steps? Steps? Really?
I make a lot of very large pieces that can not be transported in one piece, and it would be nice to use it for assembly points that I usually do on stepped reveals, but the Domino is too time consuming to set at a number "I" specify, so I end up using the Dewalt or Lamello.
As far as not being set to center because of a stupid system, again, Really? You are making excuses for a machine that will not easily allow you to do what you want. We all know that center is the best place for the domino.
If Senica wanted to do something, making an easily adjustable fence height with a pointer and a scale would be # one on my list, and I will buy the first one. Copy the Dewalt.
Member
Someone who wants a repeatable reference point they can return to at any time. Need to cut a mortise to match some parts your mortised last week? No problem if you used the presets. On the other hand if you're futzing around with a scale trying to place the cut dead center, then you've got to recreate that setting exactly.
I'd prefer a rack and pinion style fence too, but the domino one is hardly cumbersome. I'm actually having trouble envisioning your difficulty. If you want to set a custom reveal then just figure it out and use the scale. Or if you want better repeatability use a setup block to set the height difference between the pieces.I make a lot of very large pieces that can not be transported in one piece, and it would be nice to use it for assembly points that I usually do on stepped reveals, but the Domino is too time consuming to set at a number "I" specify, so I end up using the Dewalt or Lamello.
Repeatability is vastly more valuable than having the ability to center the mortise. I still can't think of why anyone would want to center something exactly using a tool that only references off of a single face. Any variation in thickness or planer snipe is going to introduce alignment problems with that. Same reason why when I cut grooves on a router table I always keep the reference side down even if I'm nominally shooting for dead center.As far as not being set to center because of a stupid system, again, Really? You are making excuses for a machine that will not easily allow you to do what you want. We all know that center is the best place for the domino.
I do think a rack and pinion fence would be an improvement but to me that's a fairly small issue.If Senica wanted to do something, making an easily adjustable fence height with a pointer and a scale would be # one on my list, and I will buy the first one. Copy the Dewalt.
Contributor
Name one machine that is adjusted by steps? Other than the Domino.
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