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Thread: Any tips on getting real Kanna Shiage/how do I know if I’ve achieved it?

  1. #1

    Any tips on getting real Kanna Shiage/how do I know if I’ve achieved it?

    Hey all, I’ve recently started down the Japanese tool rabbit hole. Photos don’t really capture the sheen left behind by a Kanna, so I always convinced myself my Stanley with Hock blade had the same effect and results. Recently I got my hands on a “real” Kanna and just finished setting it up as a 70mm smoother and took some passes on an old piece of western red cedar. Now I’m in deep because I have proof positive that a properly tuned Kanna leaves a better surface... but now I go back and look at photos of kanna finishes online and they just don’t show the iridescence thats there in real life.

    My question is:
    Are there any tips on some more advanced Kanna setup or use to get an ideal finished surface, and how exactly do I know when I’ve hit the peak finish?

    Please don’t tell me that the road goes on forever and the finishes just keep getting better; this rabbit hole has already consumed a lot of time and money.

  2. #2
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    Mark, out of interest, what is the bed angle of your kanna?

    I suspect that it is 42- or 43 degrees. If so, the difference in performance is likely to to be the extra sharpness attainable with the Japanese blade vs the A2 Hock blade, as well as the lower cutting angle of the kanna. This is not a criticism of the kanna - I'm just curious, and do wonder how the kanna would compare with a metal plane with a similar bed angle? Or, if the Stanley would work better with another blade, something along the lines of O1 or PM-V11?

    With regard set up, I cannot help beyond the basics. Hopefully Brian will see this post and comment.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #3
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    Tuning for a good shaving is more general to planing than it is specific to Kanna. Derek, the bedding angle is typically 38-39 degrees. I made one for competition last year that was 36 degrees.

    The blade, no doubt, is able to produce a better edge than anything made of A2.

    On hardwoods the difference between a well setup western plane and a Japanese plane is negligible, on softwoods it is more noticeable. Especially if the western plane is using a carbon steel iron.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #4
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    Brian, 36 degrees has the potential to leave for a significantly different effect on softwood than a Stanley with a 45 degree bed. But I imagine that Mark's Kanna may have a bed between 38 - 42 degrees. As a matter of interest, did you use the chipbreaker with yours? And what angle did you hone the blade? (thinking about the clearance angle and the effect on planing).

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 01-27-2018 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #5
    Gents,

    Sorry I never came back to this to reply...

    Info on planes:
    Western- 1910ish 605, flattened on granite, frog bedded with dye and repeated scraping, Hock O-1 blade
    Kanna- "Suwa Goro" WS#1 by Ogata, very hard steel, probably the first kanna I've really bedded and tuned decently... have to check bed and bevel angles but both noticeably shallower than Stanley

    Wood used is tight grained Western Red Cedar 3x6 beam removed from my garage rafters believed to be built in 1958. Dry is an understatement.

    I'll do some experimenting side by side planing different woods and measure angles and come back, but I may still not be at true "Kanna Shiage"... just hard to tell how well I'm doing in a vacuum I guess.

  6. #6
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    Mark

    Glad to hear you got your Ogata blade up and running.

    I don't know what your piece of Western Red Cedar looks like, but the iridescence you mentioned is easier to see on lighter-colored woods. More reflective.

    To make it easy, plane a board a little narrower than the cutting width of your blade. Trying to get an even, lustrous surface finish on a panel wider than your plane's blade is a challenge you should wait to pursue until after you are able to deal with the items listed below.

    Turn the lights down low, lower your eye, shine a directional light, like a high-power flashlight, at a low angle across the surface you just planed, and examine the board from a low angle. This will also show all the defects in the surface, and your planing technique too. Enlightening in more ways than one. Guys who imagine they are masters at sharpening and geniuses with a plane are usually humbled by this simple test performed on a panel wider than their blade. It is one I use professionally often. In this case, ignore defects and pay attention to the shine.

    Let's assume that the blade is good, and the bedding angle is fine. These factors can't be changed for your plane, so we need to maximize their performance.

    The cutting edge's bevel angle may need to be adjusted. Low is good, but too low is not durable. Only you can decide what the best range is for your plane and the wood you have chosen. I am also assuming you know how to set up the sole for this purpose, and have done so.

    The following are hard rules. I did not invent them, I only learned them from professional craftsmen more experienced than I, and confirmed their validity in my own work. You should do the same. If it sounds easy, you are not paying attention. If it sounds impossible, then you simply lack experience, a situation you can remedy. BTW, getting the tool was the easy part; This is where the rabbit hole gets dark, and the light from the opening up above disappears from view.

    1. The sole directly in front of the mouth must be absolutely flat, and in tight uniform contact with the board being planed across its full width, and right up to the extreme edge of the mouth opening. This is what holds the shaving in place while it is being cut. Sounds simple, and it is, but it can be very difficult to perfect. I think it took me nearly a year and 3 plane bodies to get right. I'm being kinder in my explanation to you than the cantankerous old boys I learned from were to me, so I'm sure you will do better.

    2. With the blade adjusted for the right depth-of-cut, the mouth of your plane must be very narrow. If a sheet of typing paper will fit through, it is too wide to produce the ultimate surface.

    3. The blade must be very sharp, and consistently very sharp across its width. Think about what this means. There is no substitute. BTW, 10,000 grit is plenty good enough. Technique is more important than the stone.

    4. The shavings must be very thin. This means all the stuff above is in order, and you are able to adjust the blade correctly. This takes practice.

    5. Assuming you set it up as a 2-blade plane, remove the uchigane. The best type of plane for this business is a single-blade plane, which is cut differently from the more common 2-blade plane. But with a sharp blade, full-width consistent pressure at the mouth, a tight mouth, and with the uchigane removed, you should be able to get good results in straight-grained wood planing with the grain.

    You don't need to achieve Nobel Prize-winning thinness, but if you have accomplished the things previously listed, the shavings are wisping off the board with a delicate sound (not raspy), and you can read newsprint through them, then you know YOUR plane is cutting that particular piece of wood the best it can. And the rabbit hole continues even deeper if you are inclined to tumble further.

    The wood, of course, is a critical factor too. Try planing different types of wood and compare. Some woods will take this type of finish and some simply won't. Western Red Cedar is not one I would expect to yield dramatic results. Port Orford Cedar, Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Hinoki, Yoshino Sugi, White Pine (straight grained) are well known for their beautiful planed finish. Surprisingly, straight-grained American Cherry will take it too, IME.

    PS: If anyone's BS meter is twitching, shine a light across your own plane work one night before your piehole embarrasses you.
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 02-23-2018 at 9:45 AM.

  7. #7
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    I second Stan’s comments. WRC can be an exceptionally challenging wood to plane cleanly. It will often tear in the summer wood with great ease.
    I find that everything must be perfect with sharpeness and setup to plane it cleanly. It’s a true test of ability.
    I had an apprentice this past fall who found the wood interesting in that it was physically easy to plane and yet exceptionally challenging to plane cleanly.

  8. #8
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    Some of the best WRC I've had the pleasure to work with had enough silica in it to rival teak. These were very dark brown boards. I've decided it's not worth the trouble to handplane western cedar anymore.The last gate I made was painted purple even after I was promised it would be left natural.
    I will say it's not fair to compare WRC to other cypresses that are friendly to edged tools.
    Aj

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    I second Stan’s comments. WRC can be an exceptionally challenging wood to plane cleanly. It will often tear in the summer wood with great ease.
    I find that everything must be perfect with sharpeness and setup to plane it cleanly. It’s a true test of ability.
    I had an apprentice this past fall who found the wood interesting in that it was physically easy to plane and yet exceptionally challenging to plane cleanly.
    I use a scrap of WRC as one of my nightly "smoothing practice pieces". To add to the fun it has a nasty knot (the root of the knot, without bark inclusion or splitting) with a very steep grain reversal. As you say it's very difficult to plane cleanly.

    My favorite "WRC defect" is when a tear starts in the summer wood as you say, and then propagates along the grain leaving a nasty striation on the surface.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 02-25-2018 at 12:49 AM.

  10. #10
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    Oddly enough I find that the very dark red variety is more difficult. Ah, I know that defect well.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #11
    A short comment about the finish left from a kanna compared to a typical western hand plane with a steel sole, is that wood on wood seems to have a burnishing effect that can create a higher sheen.
    Best regards

    Lasse Hilbrandt

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