advice for a CNC want to be

[dan baldwin]

I am just entering the foray of deciding which, if any, CNC machine might be best for me. I am exclusively a hobbyist who, to be honest, is looking for a new toy for my woodshop. I am looking forward to the challenge of learning something new and to creating projects with the new-to-me technology. I've never done CAD before but I'm pretty software proficient and have learned several other high learning curve systems. I predominately make small tables, chests, boxes and lots of turnings. Adding CNC generated inlays to small projects (like box lids) is what is currently motivating my interest, but I would expect to evolve. I have also considered and done a fair bit of research on laser systems, but I'm leaning towards CNC routers. Either route, I would rather buy a high quality tool even if it was overkill for me. My max budget is $20K although I would prefer to spend less. I would really appreciate any and all advice regarding the following questions as well as any other considerations I may have neglected. I would even be grateful if someone talked me out of it . Here are some questions:

1) CNC vs. laser for inlays ?

2) Camaster vs. Legacy ? It seems to me Legacy has better training and there is a Legacy focused CNC user group in my area (Denver). Although Camaster seems to be the choice of this forum, no ? Better build quality ? I have registered on the Camheads forum, but it has been a week and my registration has still not been approved so I can not post there.

3) If Camaster, I have debated between a Stinger I or a Stinger II. Either way I would want a spindle upgrade and FTC. I'm not sure about lathe ready or not. I do a lot of turnings and could see myself using this in the future, so maybe at lease "lathe ready" ?

4) How dependent will I be on using MDF ? I try to avoid it when possible (toxic, carcinogenic ?) Are other substances such as HDP feasible for spoiler boards ?

Thanks so much if you can advise me.

[Jim Becker]

Dan, I just went through much of what you just described and actually ordered my machine this morning. Here are my thoughts:

1) CNC vs. laser for inlays ?

Can use either. Equipping a CNC with a drag knife opens up a lot of inlay and other cutting without buying the extra machine. Lasers certainly have their place and the specific work you want to do has to be part of the decision.

2) Camaster vs. Legacy ? It seems to me Legacy has better training and there is a Legacy focused CNC user group in my area (Denver). Although Camaster seems to be the choice of this forum, no ? Better build quality ? I have registered on the Camheads forum, but it has been a week and my registration has still not been approved so I can not post there.

I did this dance, except I was originally looking at the Axiom machine...which has a lot to like about it. But when I delved deeper, I found (substantiated) that the build quality and heft of the Camaster is absolutely worthy and in the end, the cost would have been similar for like-sized machines. I did move up to the Stinger II SR-44, however, as I felt that the "buy your second machine first" idea had good merit and I'm also planning on building a part time business with the machine.

3) If Camaster, I have debated between a Stinger I or a Stinger II. Either way I would want a spindle upgrade and FTC. I'm not sure about lathe ready or not. I do a lot of turnings and could see myself using this in the future, so maybe at lease "lathe ready" ?

Same dance. I decided against the 4-axis prep because of the additional width of the gantry causing a space issue and Gary's counseling that unless there's a clear need...it's not likely to happen anyway.

4) How dependent will I be on using MDF ? I try to avoid it when possible (toxic, carcinogenic ?) Are other substances such as HDP feasible for spoiler boards ?

You can use a wide variety of materials for spoil boards, but many folks choose MDF because of it's cost, heft and flatness. Remember, it's a disposable. Most don't use "home center" MDF, however...there's better quality stuff available.

[dan baldwin]

Thanks Jim for your quick and helpful response. I have been following your quest in reading through the forum. Congrats on your decision !!

[Mark Canada]

CNC Inlay, solid maple into solid walnut - no veneer (ie: very cheap)


It's extremely durable this way too, and a lot less work (at least in my opinion) than doing it with a laser. That being said, if you're looking to do marquetry - https://www.amazoncanvas.com/ - laser wins.

4) You can get formaldehyde free MDF, it's typically "cabinetry grade MDF". If you're looking at a vacuum bed, you're kinda stuck with MDF as the vacuum needs it's porosity to suck through. You shouldn't really have any dust escaping anyway if you have a good dust shoe and good dust collection, so the MDF's dust shouldnt be any issue at all. With air assist my MDF jigs come out dust free.

Personally, if choosing between router and laser, my money will always go to the router. Router's can do a lot more than lasers can, and most things that a laser can - you can engrave stupidly fine details with a router using a very fine V bit, it just takes ages. You can also 3d carve with a router, 2.5D cut things like box carcases out, pocket locks into boxes (since you mentioned boxes), very precisely drill holes, make a ton of handy shop jigs and machine upgrades.. etc. Lasers are pretty awesome, but nowhere near as versatile.




1/2" wrench for scale


That's 36 pieces of padauk into 36 pieces of european beech.




you can make moulds with your router, can't do that with lasers

Tooling wax top, cast silicone bottom.

Cast from a silicone mould that's cast from a tooling wax master

Those are 30x40mm.


Soot free holes, I drill 15-20k of these a day when doing that part of the production:

[Gary Campbell]

Dan...
I would suggest that you read this: (copy and paste, no links allowed here) camheads.org/showthread.php?t=3904 and read it until you understand it. Apply that information to your product(s) and buy the right machine for them. Over 19,000 views and I guess less than a dozen have followed it.

Follow Keith Outten's words: (paraphrased) If the right machine is out of your price range, then save til you can afford it.

There is good info here that explains away, if you can read between the lines, some of the ongoing marketing hype of various CNC brands, especially about their smaller machines: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....or-Woodworkers It will let you know what many experienced people think are important and what they have learned post purchase.

Ignore the "buy your second machine first" recommendation. It's actually sound advice, but as a newbie you have no idea of what your needs will be in a year. Nor do you have the knowledge to make an informed decision. Get the right one for your needs now. Most branded CNC's have as good or better resale as other woodworking equipment does. In integral part of woodworking is starting out with smaller, more affordable tools and then trading them up as your needs become clear. Same goes for CNC.

Commit to the craft. If you don't have a thousand hours to commit to the basics and then more advanced (inlay) techniques to allow for proficiency, walk away. Your success will be exactly proportional to your time spent. This can be 10 hours a day for 100 days, or 10 hours a month for 100 months, you decide. After that, with practice, you can start to get good.

[dan baldwin]

Thank you Gary-- I have been reading many of your posts in the past week as I've been learning about CNC using the browser method. I'm very grateful for your experienced wisdom. I did read what you suggested and will read it again and attempt to conform the commercial bent to my hobbyist needs.

Not only am I a newbie, but I really have no intention of making any money from my hobby efforts. In the past, I have sold some items from my woodshop but only when friends have insisted. At this point I don't have "a product". To be honest, I'm more attracted to learning a new woodworking craft than I am to creating a result, although my past experience tells me one follows the other. I like the analogy about this skill being like learning to play an instrument. Hopefully a lot of the fun for me will be in the learning. As I'm writing this I realize that a Stinger 1 would probably be the machine for me if I decide to go the CNC route.

[Art Mann]

What a nice write up! Your linke worked even though you didn't think it would. I did read it when I was first shopping but I just didn't understand the meaning until I gained some experience. I will point out that someone over at Camheads needs to do a write up for people who are wanting a CNC router for other uses besides cabinets.

[Art Mann]

Jim -

Congratulations on your decision! I am expecting you are going to do some great things. I look forward to pictures.

[Bruce Page]

Dan, take advantage of Gary's wisdom, You probably won’t understand all of it right now but there’s a lot of great info in his post.
I've had my Camaster Stinger a little over 4 years now and other than self induced, I have not had a single problem with it. I am also a hobbyist and don’t push it hard. My machine is 24x36, if I were shopping today I would get the 24x48. I don't have the space for anything bigger.

[dan baldwin]

Thanks Bruce ! I'll ponder your 24x36 vs 24x48 suggestion.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks Bruce ! I'll ponder your 24x36 vs 24x48 suggestion.

Hah...I was going to go with the 24x48...and then the 36x48...and then ended up with the 48x48. LOL Ponder away!