Any problems staining before glue up

[mark mcfarlane]

I am getting close to assembling a few white oak end tables, and was contemplating staining them (pigment stain or Danish oil) prior to assembly, ala:

• Dye/Stain > Glue > Topcoat.

In the past I've found it possible but a PITA to stain an assembled piece without getting darker stain buildup in joints. These tables have about 20 pieces, ~30 Domino joints per table.

It seems like a pigment stain would not affect the glue adhesion much, and I wouldn't intentionally be staining the end grain side of each joint. Perhaps the Danish oil would be problematic.

I am trying to keep the finishing schedule as simple as possible.

[Prashun Patel]

For Domino construction, I think it's a great idea. I prefer to pre-finish Domino furniture. The reason is that it's very easy to keep the stain or finish off of the tenons and the mortises. In fact, I sometimes use sacrificial dominos to help block the mortise, and to serve as resting points so you can get at all surfaces simultaneously.

Wrap each sacrificial domino in a single layer of blue tape. Tap it in about 1/4" It will wedge it tightly into the hole and prevent contamination of the mortise.

[George Bokros]

I do a lot of finishing prior to assembly, mainly staining. I always try to mask off as much of the glue area as possible using blue painters tape.

[David Utterback]

I use a lot of panel and frame construction where it is necessary to stain (if any) and finish the panel prior to construction. Recently completed entire finish on 2 exterior doors but have not glued them together. My partner in crime got severely ill on me. Don't foresee any problem with the final steps.

[Jim Becker]

I pre-dye and/or pre-finish some components, particularly things that will be "inside a box". Spraying finish into a box is a thankless task and difficult to do without uneven results. It does require masking of glue lines if there is any kind of binder in the colorant or if you are applying oil or any kind of film finish that would inhibit the glue getting into the wood.

The tack trunk commission I'm working on finishing up "as we speak" required pre-finishing the interior components. (it's also something that I'll be charging 2 or 3 times more for the option next time, too...)

[mark mcfarlane]

For Domino construction, I think it's a great idea. I prefer to pre-finish Domino furniture. The reason is that it's very easy to keep the stain or finish off of the tenons and the mortises. In fact, I sometimes use sacrificial dominos to help block the mortise, and to serve as resting points so you can get at all surfaces simultaneously.

Wrap each sacrificial domino in a single layer of blue tape. Tap it in about 1/4" It will wedge it tightly into the hole and prevent contamination of the mortise.

Awesome idea, thanks for the tip Prashun.

[mark mcfarlane]

... It does require masking of glue lines if there is any kind of binder in the colorant or if you are applying oil or any kind of film finish that would inhibit the glue getting into the wood....

Jim, Is the oil base in Minwax pigment stain considered a binder, and therefore would require masking?

The Watco danish oil has varnish, so I see the problem.

I have some transtint dye that is close to what I want, but I like the color of a minmax stain better.

FWIW, the table I'm making is similar to the pic below. I'm thinking the dominoes alone might provide adequate joint strength even if I did a complete film finish prior to assembly, as long as the domino holes are clean. However, the last end table I made ended up being used as a dining room chair the week after I finished it. Luckily it held up fine.

table.jpg

[glenn bradley]

I frequently pre-stain/finish parts for difficult assemblies. I just tape off the areas where glue will be applied.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, Is the oil base in Minwax pigment stain considered a binder, and therefore would require masking?

Yes, Minwax oil based stains (and similar) have a binder...think of it as being a very dilute varnish that keeps the pigments in place.

[mark mcfarlane]

Yes, Minwax oil based stains (and similar) have a binder...think of it as being a very dilute varnish that keeps the pigments in place.

OK, thanks Jim.

I guess I will try some more dye tests, maybe using water instead of DNA. I tried Transtint in DNA hoping to avoid having to do two additional water-sand grain raising steps.

The one test I did applying Transtint in DNA directly to the bare white oak didn't come out very well, I ended up with some small 'circles'. I reapplied a second coat quickly, and rubbed hard but it kind of just smeared the circles into blotches. It looked like the DNA dissolved something in the wood, causing small rings (~1mm in diameter) in the dyed wood.

Maybe I'll try to recreate this 'DNA ring' problem tomorrow for fun and post some pictures.

[Jim Becker]

You should get the same general result using alcohol or water soluble dye, but alcohol flashes off much faster than water evaporates, so many folks prefer to spray alcohol dyes. Water soluble you can work a little while hand-applying, but for large surfaces, I find spraying pays off there, too, to avoid noticeable overlaps. I don't worry so much about grain raise...I'll very carefully knock off any truly rough spots with 400 paper. Then I use a sprayed coat of de-waxed shellac to seal the dye followed by knocking off any nibs with 400 paper after the first coat of that dries. I then apply a second light coat of the shellac. (you do not want to "build" shellac) If I detect any remaining nibs...I knock them off with the 400 paper, clean thoroughly and the proceed with my top coats.