Getting stain into white oak pores

[Phil Mueller]

The lighting does “orange” it up. Actual color was more like the legs/stretchers. I just finished it with paste wax. Come to think of it, it might have been interesting to try a brown colored wax...

[John TenEyck]

Maybe not for this project, Mark, but for the future consider SW's BAC Wiping Stain. It is the most amazing solvent based stain I've ever used. One coat gives deep color and I've had complete success with it on white oak. It dries in only an hour or two as well, so you can move on quickly. You need to spray a sealer over it, but if you don't have spray equipment you can use rattle can shellac, and then whatever you want over that.



John

[Steve Swinehart]

One of the problems with white oak is that the wood has tyloses. These are outgrowths or "bubbles" on parenchyma cells of xylem vessels of secondary heartwood. They dam up the cells, effectively making the cells impervious to liquids. This is why wine and whiskey barrels are made from white oak - the wood is essentially waterproof because of the tyloses in the wood cells. I'm bringing this up because that's part of the problem in getting white oak to accept any kind of liquid stain into some of the wood pores - the wood won't absorb the liquid. This means you may have to apply a different strategy to get an even stain application. Stains that sit on the wood's surface, like gel stains can help solve the problem. You may want to try adding a gel stain as a final application.

[mark mcfarlane]

The lighting does “orange” it up. Actual color was more like the legs/stretchers. I just finished it with paste wax. Come to think of it, it might have been interesting to try a brown colored wax...

Thanks Phil.

I don't suppose you know what kind of use your friends table is getting, and if the wax over Danish was enough protection. The end tables I am making are going to get pretty heavy daily use, drinks, meals,... but I really like the ultimate simplicity of wax over Danish.

FWIW, I just built a somewhat large new shop in celebration of my retirement. This is the first piece to be produced and I suspect all of my family and a few neighbors are going to be scrutinizing it, and hopefully not thinking 'nice shop, no skills'. I know how fast a bad finish can ruin a piece.

I went out tonight and got some yellow transtint, orange shellac, golden danish,..., oh ya, and some Bloxygen. I figure I'm already in about $200 for the sample finish materials for this project, so the Bloxygen should help preserve some of that investment. Eventually all the dye, stains, topcoat, and solvents will get used.

I suspect if those of you who have been finishing furniture for the past decade looked at all the finishing supplies in your shop, you'd be amazed at the investment. I should have had 'finishing supplies' in my original shop budget, alongside the tools.

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[mark mcfarlane]

Maybe not for this project, Mark, but for the future consider SW's BAC Wiping Stain. ...
John

Thanks for the tip John. It's a 25 minute drive to SW and an hour drive to Woodcraft, so it could also be helpful to find products that are easier to 'run out and grab some more'.

[mark mcfarlane]

One of the problems with white oak is that the wood has tyloses. These are outgrowths or "bubbles" on parenchyma cells of xylem vessels of secondary heartwood. They dam up the cells, effectively making the cells impervious to liquids. This is why wine and whiskey barrels are made from white oak - the wood is essentially waterproof because of the tyloses in the wood cells. I'm bringing this up because that's part of the problem in getting white oak to accept any kind of liquid stain into some of the wood pores - the wood won't absorb the liquid. This means you may have to apply a different strategy to get an even stain application. Stains that sit on the wood's surface, like gel stains can help solve the problem. You may want to try adding a gel stain as a final application.

Thanks Steve for the info. It makes sense this could be my problem, I just surprised I hadn't heard about it before, with white pine being such a common material.

The problem of 'dye not soaking in' that I am seeing on my project is only visible at a limited range of angles, ~45 degrees off the surface, so it is 'liveable'.

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark, I agree with John. It looks like there may be dust still in the bottom of the grain. Coarse grained timbers need a really good clean out before finishing. Blow it and brush it down rigorously but keep the air nozzle a few inches from the surface. Run it too close and the air will draw lines on the surface that can take stain differently and be visible. Finishing sanding at 150 is ideal for coarse grained timber.

Stains apply perfectly well with a rag. I guess I am out of fashion or whatever, but all the foam brushes etc are just ways to lighten your wallet when in fact staining and polishing is the perfect end use for worn out cotton clothing, bed sheets etc. Synthetic fibres just don't cut it. Cheers

Thanks Wayne. I typically use rags, or paper tolls to apply dye/stain. Maybe a foam brush to flood a larger surface.

[Marc Jeske]

Be aware, SW stores do NOT all carry same products.

They have like 3 or 4 like different divisions, not totally obvious unless you already know.

Call ahead to avoid disappointment.

I just purchased two more gal of BAC, really like the stuff.

Marc

[mark mcfarlane]

Be aware, SW stores do NOT all carry same products.

They have like 3 or 4 like different divisions, not totally obvious unless you already know.

Call ahead to avoid disappointment.

I just purchased two more gal of BAC, really like the stuff.

Marc

Thanks Marc.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the tip John. It's a 25 minute drive to SW and an hour drive to Woodcraft, so it could also be helpful to find products that are easier to 'run out and grab some more'.

Mark, ask for a BAC Wiping Stain brochure the next time you are at SW's. It will show you all the stock colors. I have used those a couple of times. More often, however, I have had SW start with one of the stock colors and then custom tint it to the color I needed. That is another great thing about the BAC Wiping Stains. Custom tinting is an option at no extra charge. Once I worked with the tech. for at least 45 minutes making adjustments and wiping it on a sample board to see if the color was correct. No extra charge!

If you've never used solvent based dye stain before you are in for a pleasant surprise compared to typical pigment type oil stains.

John

Oh yeah, one more thing. You can adjust the color yourself with Transtint dyes if you first add the Transtint dye to a little acetone, and then add that mixture to the BAC wiping stain.

[Phil Mueller]

Mark, I was told it wouldn't get too much use, so I went with the simple finish. The upside is that if something does happen, it's pretty easy to strip the wax and redo the damaged area.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Phil.

I suspect if those of you who have been finishing furniture for the past decade looked at all the finishing supplies in your shop, you'd be amazed at the investment. I should have had 'finishing supplies' in my original shop budget, alongside the tools.

SaveSave

How true. I have 4 or 5 shelves about 2' deep by at least 3' wide filled with finishing supplies. More piled on the floor in front. And more on a couple smaller shelves. Yikes, I've got thousands of $'s sitting there.

John

[Rob Luter]

Here's an example of Watco Dark Walnut Danish Oil. I sanded the frame to a very fine grit, then blew the pores out with compressed air. Note: I used a small compressor with no oiler of any kind. I flooded the piece with oil that had been well shaken to assure any pigment particles were well suspended. I let it soak in for quite a long time, then wiped across the grain with t-shirt material to remove the excess. Topcoat is garnet shellac and brown tinted wax.





Here's another example with the same schedule. This time with some rift sawn white oak.



You might try sanding to a finer grit, or burnishing the surface with a handful of shavings to impede absorption in the non pore areas. I've taken to using a different approach lately, where I apply an aniline dye first, sand lightly, apply a wipe on stain, and then use a penetrating oil. It produces a nice finish with pronounced pore and flake contrast. See table below. Sorry for the huge image.

[mark mcfarlane]

Here's an example of Watco Dark Walnut Danish Oil. ...

Thanks Rob for sharing the examples.

[Rob Luter]

Thanks Rob for sharing the examples.

You Betcha. I used to have the same issues with pores that didn't fill and really blowing them out thoroughly combined with letting the oil finish soak in a long time made all the difference.