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Thread: Getting stain into white oak pores

  1. #1
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    Getting stain into white oak pores

    Over the weekend I tested about a dozen finishing schedules for some white oak.

    No matter what the finish (BLO, tung oil, danish oil, transtint dye (w/DNA), oil pigment stain, seal-a-cell, arm-r-seal,...) I end up with some 'whitish' areas deep in the pores that are only visible at a certain angle.

    I sanded 100, 120, and 150 for final sand.

    Are these 'white streaks' avoidable?

    White OAk white stripes.jpg

    For completeness, the sample on the left is 2 coats of Watco Danish Oil (Med Walnut) and the right is 1 coat of Formsby Tung Oil. NO top coats on these samples. The Danish Oil gave me closest finish to what I am looking for (darken the pores but only slightly tint the rest).
    Last edited by mark mcfarlane; 01-23-2018 at 3:39 PM.
    Mark McFarlane

  2. #2
    How are you applying?

    I have used a coarse brush - like a wallpaper paste brush or nylon brustle brush to force the stain down into the pores.

    I suspect - but cannot corroborate - that adding mineral spirits to the oil-based stain will assist in preventing it from bridging the pores.

  3. #3
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    I used a water based dye stain from General Finishes and I had the same issue getting the stain into the pores of rift sawn white oak. I was the most successful using a quality foam brush.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  4. #4
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    Not sure if it would help but have you tried stain application across the grain? Application with a cloth might also help.

    It seems if too much oil stain is left in the pores, it might prolong the cure time on the finish layers. Let us know if you find an effective method.
    Rustic? Well, no. That was not my intention!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Utterback View Post
    Application with a cloth might also help.
    I was using a cloth before I switched to the foam brush.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  6. #6
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    Did you clean out the pores before starting with your finish?

    OB stain should go down into the pores if you apply it liberally and wipe it in with a circular motion, before wiping it off.

    John

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    How are you applying?
    Prashun, I used a paper towel, mostly wiping with the grain, not really trying very hard to work the finishes into the pores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    I suspect - but cannot corroborate - that adding mineral spirits to the oil-based stain will assist in preventing it from bridging the pores.
    I'm not sure I am following you, are you suggesting that diluting the stain or tung oil is a good thing, to improve penetration into the pores?
    Mark McFarlane

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Utterback View Post
    Not sure if it would help but have you tried stain application across the grain? Application with a cloth might also help.

    It seems if too much oil stain is left in the pores, it might prolong the cure time on the finish layers. Let us know if you find an effective method.
    I want maximum dark staining of the pores, so 'too much' is possibly a good thing, other than the prolonged dry time.

    I'm gonna say I wiped the various stains / dyes / finishes / oils both across and with the grain. but I didn't really work hard to 'grind it into the pores'.
    Mark McFarlane

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Did you clean out the pores before starting with your finish?

    OB stain should go down into the pores if you apply it liberally and wipe it in with a circular motion, before wiping it off.

    John
    I did a quick blast with compressed air after sanding. Is there a more effective way to clean out the pores beyond compressed air (which I could have done more rigorously)?
    Mark McFarlane

  10. #10
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    I've had the best results using a Taklon brush, I have some that are upto 3" wide and work well. You still have to work at it but the fine bristles carry the pigment into the pores.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Bokros View Post
    I used a water based dye stain from General Finishes and I had the same issue getting the stain into the pores of rift sawn white oak. I was the most successful using a quality foam brush.

    For water borne stains/dyes, I add a drop (maybe a touch more) of cheap liquid dish soap. Lowers the surface tension and so the water can carry things down into the smaller pores. You don't want suds! I pour off what I think I need into a smaller jar, maybe a pint or less and treat that.

    For oil bore stains/dyes, a teaspoon or two of turpentine per quart seems to help.

    I really don't use alcohol based dyes at all but they shouldn't need much help with surface tension.
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

  12. #12
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    Mark, I agree with John. It looks like there may be dust still in the bottom of the grain. Coarse grained timbers need a really good clean out before finishing. Blow it and brush it down rigorously but keep the air nozzle a few inches from the surface. Run it too close and the air will draw lines on the surface that can take stain differently and be visible. Finishing sanding at 150 is ideal for coarse grained timber.

    Stains apply perfectly well with a rag. I guess I am out of fashion or whatever, but all the foam brushes etc are just ways to lighten your wallet when in fact staining and polishing is the perfect end use for worn out cotton clothing, bed sheets etc. Synthetic fibres just don't cut it. Cheers
    Every construction obeys the laws of physics. Whether we like or understand the result is of no interest to the universe.

  13. #13
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    Mark, I ran into the same issue when refinishing a friend’s 1950ish family heirloom table (a complete mess from water stains and who knows what). I posted a question about it as well, and some suggested that white oak pores can sometimes have a tough time taking any type of stain. Here’s what the oak looked like after one application of Watco medium walnut (flooded on, let soak for 30 minutes, wipe off).


    7005B5F0-4F94-4CC7-8578-BDD4042004B6.jpg

    So then I did a few additional applications with Watco dark walnut and wet sanded to try to get some sanding slurry into the pores. That didn’t eliminate it, but did darken them up some.

    I finally decided it was what it was. Here’s the end result:

    BF641F54-AFA2-4814-8D33-4DDD7F8F7AB2.jpg
    Last edited by Phil Mueller; 01-25-2018 at 12:15 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Mueller View Post
    Mark, I ran into the same issue when refinishing a friend’s 1950ish family heirloom table (a complete mess from water stains and who knows what).

    ...

    So then I did a few additional applications with Watco dark walnut and wet sanded to try to get some sanding slurry into the pores. That didn’t eliminate it, but did darken them up some.

    I finally decided it was what it was. Here’s the end result:

    BF641F54-AFA2-4814-8D33-4DDD7F8F7AB2.jpg
    Thanks Phil,

    Is the color in your final photo fairly accurate? I'm guessing you added something else in the schedule, the Watco Walnut is 'browner', not so much yellow/orange.

    Did you use a topcoat over the Danish oil?
    Mark McFarlane

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    I've had the best results using a Taklon brush, I have some that are upto 3" wide and work well. You still have to work at it but the fine bristles carry the pigment into the pores.
    John, I tried another test last night and used a fingernail brush to vigorously rub in the danish oil. I think it helped, but perhaps only marginally. I didn't do two tests, with and without brush, side by side. I should have: bad science on my part.
    Mark McFarlane

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