Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: How to hold tail board in place while marking pin board?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Philly, PA
    Posts
    168

    How to hold tail board in place while marking pin board?

    I have been working on my dovetailing skills and making some progress. My greatest weakness seems to be holding the tail board in place for accurate marking of the pins.
    I've tried clamping the pin board in a vise level with the bench top and elevated the height of a plane that keeps the tail board level.
    My problem seems to be two fold: accurately lining the tail board with the end/edge of the pin board and keeping the tail board from moving when marking the pin board.
    I hope this makes sense and you folks have some tips to help me improve the quality of my dovetails.
    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Ron

  2. #2
    Couple things to try...

    1) (and this costs money) buy a skew block plane and cut a shallow rabbet in the inside of the board. This rabbet is the thickness of the other board.

    2) put your plane level with the top of the board in the vise, move it back a little and lay your other board on top of it.

    I cut tails first and transfer those lines to my pin board. I also do not cut the waste out before I cut the pins. That way, if I screw up the pin board, I can still use my tail board as a template.
    Last edited by Kevin Smira; 01-22-2018 at 8:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Clarks Summit PA
    Posts
    1,733
    Rob, my resource is Ian Kirby who wrote an excellent book called The Complete Dovetail. I highly recommend it. He recommends positioning the pin piece upright in the vise so the end is projecting about 1/8 of an inch. Hold a block against the outside face of the pin piece so the block forms an aligned projection of the face. ( the block will butt up against the pin piece and project above it - he uses the stock of a 6 inch try square with the blade removed ). Put the end of the tail piece tight to the block. Align edges of pin piece and tail piece with rule. Place your left hand fingers on bench and lower the heel and palm of hand to stabilize tail piece. Mark the pins from the tails with marking knife.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Austin Texas
    Posts
    1,957
    After doing step 2 as Kevin suggests, use a square to align one edge of your vertical pin board with the same side edge of your horizontal tail board. The right kind of square helps get the end of the tailboard flush with the face of the pin board at the same time. (For a right hander) Carefully press down on the tail board with your left hand (I tend to use my fingertips spread out), the left hand positioned so that it will not interfere with your scribing work on the pin board, then use your marking knife or pencil to mark the outline of the tails on to the end of the pin board. About 3/4 of that will be easy, with some awkwardness coming up, as you mark the left end of the pin board, when your right wrists get a little torqued. I bet Derik Cohen has some good photos and description of the operation on his website inthewoodshop.com.
    David

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,120
    3rd hand.jpg
    May pick up one or two of these style of clamps? Worked for me...

  6. #6
    There is a youtube video by David Barron showing how to make a dovetail alignment jig. I made one and like it a lot. It's dovetailed which puts some people off, but it doesn't matter how it looks as long as it works.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Parkis View Post
    There is a youtube video by David Barron showing how to make a dovetail alignment jig. I made one and like it a lot. It's dovetailed which puts some people off, but it doesn't matter how it looks as long as it works.
    So you have to cut accurate dovetails to build a jig that helps in alignment to cut accurate dovetails? I feel dizzy
    ---Trudging the Road of Happy Destiny---

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    Ron, There are many ways to tackle this fish. There are many gems in the advice above and there will likely be more to follow.

    My dovetail cutting has mostly been tails first. The alignment of the tail board to mark the pin board has always been tricky. For a while a square made in the shop just for the purpose of holding the two pieces aligned seemed to be a good answer.

    Then there was something in a Schwarz post or Youtube video that showed a trick of clamping a straight piece of wood along the baseline of the tails. It amazed me how well this simple trick worked to keep the tail board square to the pin board.

    o Marking Pins.jpg

    In fact it worked so well no other support was needed. It could be used with a support if so desired. It is kind of like the rabbet trick (aka 140 trick) without the need to cut a rabbet. It is a removable rabbet.

    Here is the rest of the post in which this was used:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....-From-Firewood

    It is about making a simple box, but it revolves around cutting dovetails.

    There are a lot of little parts to being successful at cutting dovetails. Over time many of them become habit and ingrained to the point of becoming non-expresionible parts of making the joint.

    Check Derek Cohen's site www.inthewoodshop.com and explore his furniture making section. Many of them where he is using dovetails may click with you and expose one of those little gems that improves your work.

    Then look into other write ups of people working on projects using dovetail joints. Some of the tactics may not mesh with your way of working, but often even something that doesn't seem right will give you an idea that will work.

    One of my dovetail epiphanies was learning to cut to the line and not through the line. This especially applies to cutting the second half of the joint marked from the first. The line made around the tail (or pin if done pins first) is not in the waste area. If anything the waste area is a little bit away from that line if you use a pencil. Understanding this made my dovetails much better.

    Here is a drawer in a bench made after having come to an understanding with this little gem:

    Small Bench.jpg

    At the time it was too cold in the shop to glue this drawer. Being just before Christmas made doing it in the house out of the question. My plan was to glue it after the holidays or in spring. It has held together for four years now without being glued.

    Here is a link to the original post on that:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....hop-for-Gluing

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 01-23-2018 at 1:30 AM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    3,222
    This may be a little hard to see, but I clamp one of those thick squares (sold as a corner clamp guide) to my bench top next to the vise and use it as a guide to square up the alignment. My dovetail sawing is still being refined, but at least this method resulted in a very square corner.

    F297DB9C-7750-486A-ABDC-BE4B015EFD3A.jpg

  10. #10
    A shallow rabbet on the inside of the tail board helps a lot.

    Just be sure to do it BEFORE you scribe for the pins. ;-)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Philly, PA
    Posts
    168
    You guys are the best!
    Lots of good references, ideas, and thoughts. Jim K gets the award for word count and pictures, but it is a many-way tie for helpful info
    At this point I will try a shallow rabbet or clamping a board to the tail scribe line and maybe a clamp or Barron jig for the side alignment. I'll have to try a few dovetails to see if the two references are needed or if I can get the edge alignment by eye when using a scribe line rabbet or board on the scribe line. (Geez, it is harder to write it out than visualize the setup.)
    Thanks again. Back to the shop.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pueblo, CO
    Posts
    328
    Don't recall where i saw it, but if you are making a drawer, cut the bottom grooves before the dovetails. Then you can use a piece of the bottom in the groove to align the boards for laying out either pins or tails as you prefer. I tried it a while back and it worked great. Haven't tried the 140 trick yet, but it's next for my next dovetails.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    Holding work is done by the Moxon vise and the rear rest..



    The resr has nin-slip (fine sandpaper) on its base and top, and this holds the rear of the board.

    The Moxon vise has a flip up spacer (to hold the board above the chop of the vise, to prevent it being cut up when knifing the lines), and this spacer also has non-slip ...







    Once the lines have been scored, flip the spacer out of the way, and raise the workpiece (if needed) to saw.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Philly, PA
    Posts
    168
    Derek,
    Thanks for the flip-up spacer idea.
    I had visited you site and planned to adopt the sandpaper keeps the tai end of the taill board from slipping on the rear rest idea. The flip-up spacer with sandpaper I didn't see there, but it seems like a good way to firm the grip on the other end.
    I assume you rear rest matches the height of your Moxon. Is that true?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    I assume you rear rest matches the height of your Moxon. Is that true?
    Hi Ron. Yes - they are equal heights. This makes it very easy to keep all stable when exerting a little down force.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •