Advice on JP combo vs separate tools

[Peter Zimmerman]

I’m in the process of building a new shop with the idea of returning to woodworking after a 25-year hiatus. My plan is to purchase a combination of equipment to suit my needs. I’ve been looking at different equipment lines to strike a balance between quality and value. In the jointers and planers, I believe that it makes sense to start with machines with helical cutterheads for the usual reasons that have been discussed before. I had planned on separate machines but I’m really intrigued by what I’m reading on the Hammer A3-31/41 machines. Taking shop size out of the equation, does it make sense to go with quality over specialization right out of the gate? For reference, I’m thinking of Grizzly extreme series or possibly PM as my other options. The same question would apply (sort of) for bandsaw options. Are European machines really all that and a bag of nuts? I read a number of people who have issues with Asian companies but most tend to like their value vs performance balance. Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Peter, I have an A3-31 and a B3 Winner with the outrigger.

My brother recently bought an N4400 band saw and he's really pleased, he was so happy to be rid of his clone band saw that he gave it away. Now he has a saw that works great and he's finally getting a lot of use out of his band saw.

As to your question, the A3 has zero snipe, lots of power, a digital readout (option) that's accurate to 0.1mm, which means never having to test or measure anything, just set it and plane.

I also have table extensions which are rarely used.

I have the knife system, many people buy the Silent Power cutter, I would if I were buying it again for the noise reduction, and the reduction of the chip volume compared to the knife type head. It's the only MAN rated (low kickback risk) segmented cutter head that I'm aware of.

I really like having the space savings, as well as the performance of this machine.

I do not find changeover an issue at all as I tend to joint and plane in batches.

If you go that route, a saw shaper will also give you a machine with enhanced capability, accuracy, capacity and safety over the traditional North American style machines.

I suggest you watch the videos on the Felder site, worth signing up for, they don't pester you............Rod.

[Will Boulware]

If you don't mind a little legwork and rehab, you could do really well with a vintage jointer and planer, and vintage bandsaws are great as well. If you're buying new (and it sounds like you are) the Euro combinations are hard to beat (unless you have space for Euro separates). Whatever you end up with, be sure you get as wide a jointer as possible. If I didn't have my big Crescent jointer, I'd be looking hard at a J/P combo.

As for bandsaws, if you're not into vintage cast iron, you really don't hear an unkind word about the Italian or Austrian saws. I've got a 3 phase 20" Rockwell that works wonderfully, but again, if this wasn't an option, I'd be buying a Euro machine.

[Ted Derryberry]

I had a Delta 13" benchtop planer and a Grizzly 6" jointer with a spiral cutterhead and needed to upgrade. The planer was too loud and I was doing a lot more work with lumber (vs. sheet goods) and would have worn it out in a year I'd guess. The jointer was a great value for the money I spent, but the 6" width was limiting. I thought I'd be getting Grizzly machines with spiral cutterheads. I ended up with a Hammer A3-31 with a spiral cutterhead and have had it about 10 months. My only regret is I didn't go ahead and get a Felder AD 741. The A3-31 is a great machine and I've been very pleased with it. The changeover hasn't been a big deal as I do production work and joint a bunch and then plane a bunch. Snipe is almost non-existent. I can't say zero because very thin boards (3/8" or so) tend to snipe unless you put some upward pressure on them as they exit the machine. Other than saving space in the shop, you're only paying for one cutterhead and one motor, and getting an extra wide jointer by most standards. If you were to buy a Grizzly 15" planer and 12" jointer I bet the total price would be close to what you pay for the A3-31. The ease of use, even with the changeover, and overall quality doesn't even compare, and I've been happy with everything I've bought from Grizzly.

I don't have extension tables, my salesman actually discouraged me from buying them until I used the machine awhile. On longer boards it might be nice to have an infeed extension on the jointer, but otherwise I don't think they're necessary. I just use roller stands to catch the outfeed jointing and planing. Last month I got a KF700SP saw/shaper and with the sliding table it looks like edge jointing is going to be a thing of the past for me except on boards too wide to through the planer on edge to dress them up after ripping.

[Prashun Patel]

I am a happy A3-41 owner. I got it because I am space constrained. But even if I get a bigger shop, I don't think I would go back to separates. I find it easy to switch over, and have adapted my work methods. I am able to gang up jointing and planing ops reasonably well. Even if I had more space, as a hobbyist, I'd prefer to use it for other ways than dedicated machines.

I would evaluate Minimax's offerings in this range too. Those owners love their Tersa heads as much some Hammer owners like their helical head. It's apples and oranges, but both have loyal followings.

[John TenEyck]

I have a MiniMax J/P. But if space were of no concern I'd have separate machines, without hesitation. Change-over is simple on my J/P, but no change-over is better. Of course I'd like to have Felder or MiniMax separates, but I'd have no qualms about the Grizzly Extreme series jointer or planer either. I have their G-636X BS and can attest that it is very capable with essentially no vibration and has met every expectation I had.

John

[Mike Heidrick]

No trading my separates for a combo. The trick is to buy nice separates.

[Curt Harms]

I have a jet JJP-12 combo machine. I bought it for two reasons 1) I had a 6" jointer and upgrading to an 8" seemed a half measure. I buy rough lumber and I can easily find boards over 8" wide. Yes I know I could joint boards wider than 8" on an 8" jointer but why if I'm buying new? 2) I'm space constrained and the JJP-12 will fit in a space 2' X 5'. I have it on a shop made mobile base which works quite well. If space is not an issue, like Mike says - buy nice separates or old iron.

[Brian W Evans]

I have a MM 16" J/P combo and I love it. I don't mind changeover but if money and space were not issues, I would have definitely stuck with separates. That said, if you're buying a whole shop full of tools, check out a full combo machine (jointer, planer, saw, shaper). You'll get some excellent equipment and have plenty of space left over for workbenches (can never have too many), a spray booth, lumber storage, etc., etc., etc.

This guy has a nice series of videos on the Minimax version of a full combo machine (CU300).

Never used a Euro bandsaw, but never heard anything but very positive reviews, either.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I have the 12" Grizzly G0634XP. Would have liked the Hammer, but budget couldn't stand it at the time (maybe tomorrow?)

Went from 6" & 12" separates; will never go back to unequal width in J/P capacity. Change-over is non-issue; and its a great way to save some space.

I'll have to let others get gooey over the Hammer features, but I think the 'combos' in general are good compromises and the XP works well / good value.

[Jim Becker]

I'm somewhat of a "believer" when it comes to J/P combos for small shops, hobby or pro, where the worker desires wider capacities for both flattening and thicknessing. The latter is generally easy with separates, but wide separate jointers are either pricy to buy new or require someone willing to work with (and be willing to maintain) a vintage old-iron machine. With the J/P combos available from Felder/Hammer, SCM/Minimax, etc., you get a lot of utility in a lot less space than "big separates" would require. And contrary to non-believer lore, the changeover between functions is pretty much something that takes a minute to a minute and a half at most...and that's with manually cranking up/down the planer table like with my machine. I personally wouldn't go back to separates. In some cases, I think taking into consideration of changeover makes for better planning and pace and that potentially means less mistakes.

As to Euro gear...yea, it's outstanding. But it's also something you're not going to be able to trot out to a local service center for any repairs. Just be prepared and willing to take care of the labor in the unlikely case that you should have to fix or replace a part at some point. My shop is filled with Euro gear and I have zero regrets. (Slider, J/P, Bandsaw) In fact, it would be really difficult for me to go back to mass-market type machinery and I'm not saying that for any reason of snobbery, etc. The quality and precision is incredible, even on the lower-end of the Euro market.

[Jamie Buxton]

.. Taking shop size out of the equation, ..

Get real. Ignoring shop size means you're just daydreaming.

[Peter Zimmerman]

I've looked on the Minimax website and the information leads me to believe that their units are all 3-phase. Am I mistaken on that? I'm also trying to justify a need for the larger Hammer A3-41. Shop size will be 40 x 55' with a mezzanine. Comfortable if not spacious for a 1-man operation.

[Jim Becker]

I've looked on the Minimax website and the information leads me to believe that their units are all 3-phase. Am I mistaken on that? I'm also trying to justify a need for the larger Hammer A3-41. Shop size will be 40 x 55' with a mezzanine. Comfortable if not spacious for a 1-man operation.

The SCM/Minimax machines are available in single phase.

https://www.scmgroup.com/en_US/scmwo...er-planers.893

You can contact Sam Blasco for detailed information and pricing:

Sam Blasco
sam.blasco@scmgroup.com
512-931-1962
512-796-3036 (mobile)

[Peter Zimmerman]

I'm grateful for you clearing that up.