Contributor
I was going to post but Steven got to it first. A light grip on the saw when starting the cut helped me a lot.
I saw a nice dovetail saw from TFWW website. No one seems to mention it. It has a conventional handle, not the gents saw. Made In England I think.
I was wondering if anyone owns or uses one.
Contributor
The Gramercy dovetail saw is a very fine saw and one of my favourites. I consider it a dovetail saw for the more experienced as it demands a very light hand.
My review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...vetailSaw.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
I realise I'm late to the game here but I prefer my LN saws over my Veritas - I have the thin plate tapered DT and Carcass Saws from LN, and those are my absolute favourite joinery saws - they cut fast, clean and straight so effortlessly.
I have a bunch of Veritas saws and a Bad Axe Sash - they are all excellent saws. I do find however that the Veritas come a lot easier to use (meaning easier to start), but cut slower. I think this is intentional, to make it more accessible to all the customers. So for someone just starting out with backsaws, the Veritas are excellent (of course you could also reshape the teeth). They are excellent value and very well made, if a bit ugly (in my opinion).
The Bad Axe Sash - is a thing of beauty, and I want to love it, but honestly it's the worst performing saw that I have, even worse than saws I've filed myself, and I'm no expert. Maybe I got a bad one, or maybe it's just my technique, but it's a hybrid filing that is supposed to do both rip and crosscuts well, but doesn't do either well. I find it grabby and not a saw that just floats into the work like my Lie Nielsen. I would resharpen it but I know Mark Harrell is a saw pro and I keep hearing praises of the saws so I figured I'll grow to love it....maybe some day. It's also my most expensive saw.
The LN's are quite a bit more expensive than the Veritas, and around half the price of the Bad Axe. They cut beautifully, and look great too. I can only speak for the thin plate saws, as I haven't tried the others. (They do however run the risk of getting kinked easier than a thicker plate).
Member
<p>
Thanks for the link. Even though you weren't thrilledwith the saw it sure had some nice clean lines.</p>
Contributor
On holding a saw, one thing often stated is to hold it as if it was a bird in your hand. Do not try to steer it in the cut. A properly sharpened and set saw will pretty much keep itself going straight.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Joel @TFWW wrote a blog about Choosing a Dovetail Saw recently. He talks about the tradeoffs and features and things to consider. (He also admits, for him, the Gramercy is perfect, and if it wasn't they'd change the design.Originally Posted by Derek Cohen
)
(Joel doesn't post often enough to check everyday and I end up forgetting, getting behind, and then binge reading. I just came across his post from last November yesterday.)
+1 to Pete's excellent suggestions. In particular Pete's comments about putting downward pressure on the saw, particularly when starting the cut are super helpful and relevant to all sharp, Western hand saws, whether backed/joinery saws or full-size panel saws. Like Pete, most common problem I see is people putting downward pressure on the saw when trying to start a cut which leads to "grabbing/digging in" etc. , causing the tooth line to jump around and not start on the layout line.
Some of the tips I found most helpful for starting a cut square and directly on the layout line:
1) When starting the cut, use your left thumb at the edge of the work piece, against the edge of the saw plate to line up the tooth line with the layout line.
2) Keep the tooth line at a very low angle, almost flat relative to the surface of the work piece. This makes it easier to move the tooth line slightly left or right with your thumb to be directly aligned with the layout line when starting the kerf.
3) Apply no downward pressure! Instead focus on "hovering "the tooth line right above the layout line while moving it back and forth an inch or so. As you gradually let the weight of the saw fall unrestrained on the work piece you'll be able to start your kerf exactly where you want it. Once you have the kerf established you can raise the handle of the saw to a more efficient 45° angle of tooth line relative to the work piece.
Other things I find helpful that I'm sure most people already know:
* For using full-sized saws, the saw bench is your friend. I like a saw bench height at the top of my knee and prefer something fairly heavy and stable. Mine is made out of Doug fir 4 x 4's for the legs and an 11/2" thick top with a slot in the middle. The thickness of the top also allows you to use holdfast. A flip up or slide up stop on the edge of the saw bench is also super helpful to keep the work piece stable.
*Clamp the work – a sharp saw actually exert more pressure on the work piece than dull saw because the teeth are "digging in" to the wood fibers. Even when using small saw/workpiece, you can be surprised by how much the work will move around if not clamp down.
* When starting a cut, try and line up the tooth line, the layout line and your dominant eye (you're right-handed, right eye, etc.), all in the same vertical plane. It's also helpful to use a square on the work piece to help align the saw at a 90° angle for square cut.
Just a few suggestions I find helpful. YMMV.
Cheers, Mike
Member
I'm right handed and left eye dominant.
Member
When I first starting refurbishing saws, I never use to side dress but have for numerous years now. I don't use it to correct drift, just to create the knife edge Holly is talking about and to even up the set, even though my set is pretty darn even to start with. It's not a heavy pass either, just a very "LIGHT" pass. Disston, Atkins, Simonds and Holly all recommended it and I have no reason to doubt them. As always, peoples opinion on this will very but I have seen an improvement when doing it on hundreds of saws.
1907 Disston Hand Book On Saws.jpg1923 The Disston Saw Tool & File Book.jpg1907 Atkins Saw Sense.jpg1926 Simonds Guide For Carpenters.jpgHolly.jpg
Contributor
Daryl,
I do as the manual suggests, but not the tips of the teeth. As I'm sure you know, there is a burr from the file after filing, mostly in the gullet area. I use a medium India slip to stone the sides to remove that burr, but take great care to not go so high as to hit the top, cutting part of the tooth. For rip teeth, your teeth will never look like the picture in the illustration if you hit them with a stone or worn out file. Two different approaches that yield the same great results, I'm sure. I like my saws to cut as aggressive as possible. In my opinion, anything that removes sharp corners takes away from that.
Pete
Member
I guess this is one where we’ll have to diasagree and I’ll just leave it at that.
Member
Erik over at Florip Toolworks just came out with a $99 dovetail saw, I received mine a few weeks back and it cuts like a dream. Worth taking a look: http://floriptoolworks.com/
Owner - Christopher and Co. Woodcraft and Design
Friend of the Creek
Eric, I had not known about Florip Tools works (and I live in SE Michigan!). I’ll definitely have to pay them a visit next time I’m in the Traverse City area. Thanks for posting.
Contributor
Derek, Thanks for your reply on the Gramercy Dovetail saw, and the nice review.
It doesn't seem that popular, but looks like a nice saw.
Contributor
Interesting. He wants $100 and LN - a known quantity with superb service - wants $125. I don't know if the savings is worth it or not - depends on the product. But I'll be very interested to hear how folks like the saw as he gets a few more out there on the market. Looks like things are moving forward - he has a 3 week backlog. (It's tempting to buy one just to support a veteran's start-up.)
He also sells a 6" Titanium rule for $15. To me, this seems like a novelty item - titanium tools really aren't needed for what I build. I don't like the way it's laid out either, but that's just me. But maybe it would make a cool stocking stuffer or something.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
“If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”
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