Timber Framing chisels?

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been working on removing a 1- 1 1/2” x 16” piece of red oak from a red oak log. Should be doing it with an adze & or carving axe but, mine are at our cabin at the moment. The 2” bevel edge Narex chisel I have been using seems over matched.

I got interested in Timber Framing and have been watching guys do timber framing on YouTube. Most of the joinery for this work seems to be done with a 1 1/2” Timber Framing chisel, not a firmer chisel, not a slick, but a real Timber Framing chisel. Barr Tools seems to make the prefered tools for this work.

I am wondering if anyone here has any experience to relate with regard to these chisels and their use? I may make a trip to Highland Woodworking tomorrow to check them out.

Below is a series of videos, in which, a guy & his wife: take down trees, hew timbers from the logs, build a two story workshop, using classic timber framing joinery. They use wood & plaster to make the walls within the frame, build windows & doors, even door latches are made from wood......

https://youtu.be/s8GP68nLpEY

https://youtu.be/uPaVWd3SKl4

.....sort of redefines Neanderthal & reliance on hand tools.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I'm a timber framer by trade, so I suppose I'll speak up a bit.

I don't own Barr framing chisels but have used them many times (co-workers own them), and they are fantastic. Very high quality steel and manufacturing.

All of my framing chisels are from old American tool makers (Witherby, Pexto, Union Tool, etc) and they are great, with some caveats* The Witherby chisels are my favorites to use and sharpen. I have framing chisels ranging from 1" - 2" in various widths. I have paid ranging from $10-75 for them on the used market (some from eBay, some from antique markets, etc.)

*The issue that you're likely to have with old chisels is the back not being flat enough upon purchase. This will lead to either a major lapping/flattening session just to get it prepped to sharpen and hone, which could potentially create a "belly" along the back of the chisel. This has happened to me on a couple of occasions and some of my chisels weren't flat to begin with, but I bought them anyway. You can use a framing chisel in this state with a belly along the back in many ways just fine, but you just have to be aware in a long, paring situation you can't necessarily rely on the back as a reference the same way you might with a chisel that has a dead-flat back.

This is where the value of the $150+ Barr chisels come into play. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a couple of Barr framing chisels if I were starting again; it will save you countless hours of flattening and initial sharpening. 1 1/2" and 2" are the most used sizes, though others can certainly be useful.

A good quality mallet or two cannot be overstated for timber framing. I recommend having a couple different weights around. I normally use a 30 oz urethane Wood is Good round mallet. One of my co-workers uses a rawhide / steel Garland mallet, which a good bit heavier and can pack some serious heat. It's handy for chisel work, but I find it to be the most handy during assembly when timbers need a little adjustment or persuasion to seat all the way.

I really enjoy those Mr. Chickadee videos. They are peaceful, quiet and beautiful.

[Mike Holbrook]

Phillip, thanks for the reply, very helpful!

I have been making a selection of mallets from a dead/dying large dogwood on our property. I have been amazed at how much abuse these mallets have shrugged off so far. I have also been thinking about purchasing a Thor, metal head mallet. Apparently the heads can be purchased seperately. I have been thinking about rawhide on one side and poly on the other.

I have been surprised at what the Narex 2” chisel has endured during my red oak log project. This chisel has a plain wood handle that I figured would break much easier. I am working on a carving bench for axe & adze work. I am confident a Barr or other framing chisel will endure a good deal more.

image.jpg

Mr. Chickadee offers a great variety of valuable information, which I suspect I will be utilizing for quite a while. Yes, peaceful and beautiful as well.

[Patrick Chase]

I have been surprised at what the Narex 2” chisel has endured during my red oak log project. This chisel has a plain wood handle that I figured would break much easier. I am working on a carving bench for axe & adze work. I am confident a Barr or other framing chisel will endure a good deal more.

I question whether you really need to upgrade to a framing chisel here, unless you want something longer. The Narex chisels are pretty heavily made, and the alloy they use is inherently very well suited to this sort of work.

Narex quenches their steel in a manner that converts austenite to lower bainite instead of martensite. They don't temper per se, since the bainite comes out of the quenching process at the target hardness of ~Rc59. Lower Bainite at Rc59 is quite a bit tougher than Martensite that's been tempered to the same hardness, so other than the handles that 2" Narex is pretty well suited to framing "as is".

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I can also recommend the Barr framing chisel. I have the 1 1/2" and used it recently to build a cypress pergola and will soon be building a traditional timber frame garage. It takes and holds an edge extremely, extremely well. The edge retention is really impressive, even compared to my Veritas PMV11 bench chisels.

The downside is that mine took a heap of work to initially flatten the back, which came very bumpy / out if flat. A couple of solid hours on a DMT extra coarse 10" diamond plate mostly sorted it.

Cheers, Dom

[lowell holmes]

I acquired a 2"x 13" chisel without a handle many years back. It had been beaten with a hammer on the open socket. I had to dress the socket so I could make a handle. Not having a lathe, I made hexagonal handle and then whittled it round.
I bought a chrome plumbing fitting and made a 1 1/4 diameter x 7/8" ring to reinforce the striking end. The overall length is 20". The back was flat when I got it.

I have made mortise and tenon legs for a garden trellis. The legs are treated 4X4 square posts. I chopped mortises in treated 4X4 posts and made tenons for the cross pieces.
I can post a photo if anyone wants to see it.

[Mike Holbrook]

Dom, they say the Timber Framing chisels are R62, definitely hard.

No lathe here Lowell. I have been making square & hex chair & table legs to compensate. Not sure exactly how you fixed the chisel you mention. A picture might help.

Patrick, my concern is more for the handle on the Narex chisel. I have been whacking it hard with the mallet in the picture and I have heavier ones. So far the steel has held up. It isn’t designed to stand up to what a framing chisel is though. I have been making joints in 8x8 & 4x4 timbers recently.

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

Dom, they say the Timber Framing chisels are R62, definitely hard.

Hi Mike,

Yeah, I actually checked on the hardness tester at work and measured 61 HRC. A veritas PMV11 measured 61.8 HRC but I suspect aside from hardness the Barr is just tougher; the edge doesn't break down like the Veritas tend to.

[Peter Christensen]

I’m wondering what the opinions are on the Sorby chisels Lee Valley sell? I took a timber framing class for a week in the winter of 1991 and bought some for it. They worked well but I haven’t used them for the same work since.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,41504,41529

[Jeff Heath]

The Barr tools are nice if you have more money than time. Like Phillip mentioned, buying vintage means you have more work to put in flattening them. My timber framing chisels were bought at a swap meet for 10 bucks apiece. They are excellent quality steel, and are made by Greenlee (3) and also 1 from Swan. I also picked up a couple of 1" skew chisels which are nice to have for joinery and getting into tough corners. I probably spent about 2 hours on each chisel flattening, new grind and hone, and a new handle for 2 of them. It's a one time adventure (flattening) that will never need to be done again, except for touch up.

The vintage steel is every bit as good as new chisels today, if not better.

There is a measurable difference between a proper timber frame chisel and the Narex chisel you are trying to use, and it's size and heft. Anyone who doesn't see that hasn't done much timber framing. On my first TF project, I set out using my normal bevel edged Greenlee (also vintage) chisels. I have a full set that I've accumulated over the years up to 2". They just weren't big enough. Proper TF chisels are longer, much more stout, and with longer handles. All of that is needed to do a high volume of work quickly.

If you have nothing but time on your hands, then you can accomplish anything with a sharpened spoon, too, but I wouldn't recommend it as the way to go if you have an option.

If you decide to spend the money on the Barr chisels, you won't be disappointed. I have used them (somebody else had a set a frame raising I was at and allowed me a whirl) and they are very nice. Just very spendy, too. I probably would have bought a couple of them for my TF work if I hadn't found my vintage chisels at the swap meet.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am looking at older tools too. I am thinking about buying 1 Barr, 1 1/2 or 2” and a couple older ones to restore.

I like restoring the older tools too:

image.jpg

[lowell holmes]

I've never seen anything from Lee Valley that was not good.

I've never seen nor used the Sorby chisels, but if I were wanting some, I would but them in a heart beat.

[John C Cox]

I love my hand tools and all.... But huge stock removal with hand tools is not fun for me... This looks like a perfect job for a good router or a skil saw to hog out the bulk of the waste.... Crosscut grooves into the wood - then the use the chisel to clean it all up...

[John C Cox]

Hi Mike,

Yeah, I actually checked on the hardness tester at work and measured 61 HRC. A veritas PMV11 measured 61.8 HRC but I suspect aside from hardness the Barr is just tougher; the edge doesn't break down like the Veritas tend to.

I have not heard that issue with the PMV11 chisels.... Have you had issues with the edges chipping?

[Tom M King]

I recently spent 14-1/2 hours (kept up with the time over consecutive days) using a timber framing chisel, and 30 oz. Wood is Good urethane mallet. I'll never use any other kind of mallet now. There was almost no noticeable mushrooming on the end of the chisel handle, and no sore elbow, or wrist. I don't know what brand chisel it is. It was one my Dad owned, and has no stamps, or engraving of any kind. It was nothing fancy though, and I'm sure no steel harder than 01. We were doing some Heart Pine sill repair in a 1755 house.