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Thread: Compressors info needed

  1. #1
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    Compressors info needed

    I'm just a hobbiest. I have a 20+ year old CH 20 gallon compressor. Works, but loud. Looking at California Air compressors. The 10 gallon is rated at 5.3 SCFM @ 90psi. The 15 gallon is also rated the same at 90 psi, but lower at 40 psi (6.4 vs 7 SCFM). Does the gallon capacity just mean it will cycle more? Will they run air tools? Any other recommendations?
    When working I had more money than time. In retirement I have more time than money. Love the time, miss the money.

  2. #2
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    I was in the market for a small compressor and looked online at California Air. The lower top end PSI put me off. I read a bunch of reviews and while a lot of people love them, there was a significant percentage that had problems with them. I ended up buying a second Porter Cable C2002 for $100 shipped. Yeah, it's loud, but I know they work and they're cheap enough that if it lasts 5 years I more than got my money out of it. My first one is well over 5 years old and all I've had to do is replace the drain valve, relief valve, and regulator guts recently. The shop is loud anyway so the compressor coming on every once in a while isn't a big deal to me.

    You won't have any problem running nail guns with 5.3 SCFM. The C2002 is only 2.6 SCFM at 90 psi and I can run a stapler or trim nailer without a problem. I don't know about anything like a die grinder, sander, or impact wrench. Check the specific tool's requirements.

  3. #3
    Scfm is hard to assess. It is dependent on what psi you run it at. I have a CAT compressor that is rated at a certain scfm at 90psi. We use half that scfm but run at 110psi and it cycles about 10x more than I had expected.

    My compressor is quite quiet. However, I would buy maintenance parts from CAT so you can replace them every year.

  4. #4
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    Air tools probably 5hp two stage required if the have a motor. nail guns pretty much any 3-5 gallon one will keep up with one guy in a shop, not framing or roofing.
    Bill D

  5. #5
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    The larger tank will help a little but it depends on use. If you are using the air intermittently, the larger tank will let the compressor sit longer between cycles. If you are using close to 5 SCFM at 90 PSI then the tank size won't matter. What do you want to use the air for?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by William C Rogers View Post
    I'm just a hobbiest. I have a 20+ year old CH 20 gallon compressor. Works, but loud. Looking at California Air compressors. The 10 gallon is rated at 5.3 SCFM @ 90psi. The 15 gallon is also rated the same at 90 psi, but lower at 40 psi (6.4 vs 7 SCFM). Does the gallon capacity just mean it will cycle more? Will they run air tools? Any other recommendations?
    The capacity of the tank will have an effect on the cycling of the compressor, all things being equal. The larger the tank, the less cycles for a given task. Once any "reserve volume" is used up, it is now the function of the compressor to maintain CFM.
    However, "reserve volume" is not the fundamental purpose of that tank. It's actual function is to act as the primary air receiver. Hot high pressure gasses from the compressor give up energy as they expand into a lower pressure volume, due to the D/P, and as the pressure drops, moisture comes out and is allowed to condense. If the tank is static, there will be additional moisture coming out due to the ambient environment in the tank becoming closer to the ambient environment outside the tank. Once the compressor kicks on though, this cycle begins again. The tank is the first stage of mechanical moisture separation in an air system.

    Both of those compressors will run air tools on a limited basis. Nailers, staplers, small impact wrenches, etc.. Tools that do not have a long "on time". You would be pushing it to run paint sprayers, or any rotary tool with those compressors. Sand blasters, sanders, and die grinders, are definitely out of their range.

    if you have the space, a 5hp, 80 gallon, unit would be a better long term solution. Quincy, Rolair, and Ingersoll Rand ,make nice ones. If not, both of those CAT compressors would be very nice to own.

    One thing to consider is that a lot of "traditional" air tools are being replaced by battery powered, or corded ,electric tools. If you don't have the specific need for a big compressor, the smaller ones are well suited.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 01-20-2018 at 3:04 PM.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  7. #7
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    I have an older Sears Compressor (~ 15 year) that is 33 Gal/150 PSI & very loud. Too loud for my workshop. So I set it up in the garage & ran a 3/8" 600(?) PSI rated plastic line from the garage to my shop & ran an electric line as well with an on/off switch in the workshop. I run my shop tools off it & having it in the garage allows me to spray paint there in warmer weather. Works well & it might be worth considering.
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  8. #8
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    You really need to better define "run air tools." There's a big difference between a brad gun and a dual-action sander. And it also depends on how you want to use them. My dad has a little 1/2HP 1-gallon Senrac compressor designed to run a brad gun. But when he had one stuck nut to remove, he used it with his impact wrench and it worked fine because he only needed to run the tool for 10 seconds. I recently bought a small Rolair compressor that's listed at 60 decibels, and I think it uses the same pump as some of the CAT compressors. I absolutely love how quiet it is. I used to hate enduring the noise of my old compressor, which wasn't as loud as some. The Rolair doesn't bother me at all, and I can even have or normal conversation or listen to music while it's running.

  9. #9
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    Put the compressor outside and run air hose inside if the noise is bothersome. That's what I do.

  10. #10
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    I completely understand wanting it to be quieter, but I'd rather listen to one loud cycle than ten quiet ones. See Prashun's post above.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Crimmins View Post
    I recently bought a small Rolair compressor that's listed at 60 decibels, and I think it uses the same pump as some of the CAT compressors. I absolutely love how quiet it is. I used to hate enduring the noise of my old compressor, which wasn't as loud as some. The Rolair doesn't bother me at all, and I can even have or normal conversation or listen to music while it's running.

    Must have bought a JC10.
    I have one also, and it's great, especially in the house, and shop.
    I have a bigger 5HP, 60 gallon, Rolair in the garage for working on the vehicles.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  12. #12
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    This is a better definition of my needs. Occasional use of air impact wrench, die grinder, nailers (framing, finishing, Brad and pin). The compressor I have is bare minimum for some of these, but none are extended use so that is ok. I am a turner and need to blow chips of myself and the lathe. I also pierce using a dental handpiece and it required ~38 psi continuous as it can take a couple of hours to pierce at a time. The current compressor cycles during use about 4 minutes on and 3 minutes off. It's loud and even with ear protection it is annoying. The California Air is quiet. I want quiet, but don't want it constantly running or quickly cycling to keep up with the hand piece. The 2hp 10 gallon is quiet and even considering adding another 10 gallon storage tank. I don't have a way to put it outside as I have no buildings and don't want to build a cover for a 20+ year old compressor. For comparison a small pancake compressor cannot keep up at all with the handpiece. Since I have very little knowledge regarding selection of compressors should I look for the largest tank size, highest psi, higest SCFM, to optimize my requirements? 110 or 240 is ok. I'm looking for low cost as I'm just a hobbiest and want the best low cost choice.
    When working I had more money than time. In retirement I have more time than money. Love the time, miss the money.

  13. #13
    I would stay as far away from California Air Tools as humanly possible. I had one and the motor failed after maybe 15 total uses. It was a second compressor for me and I only used it sparingly when I had a job to do indoors. I called their service dept and it took weeks to get through to a human being. Message after message, email after email left unanswered. Just awful.....

    long story short, they refused my request for warranty coverage because the unit was "out of warranty." It was, in fact, out of warranty.... I kid you not.... 3 DAYS past the warranty. No leeway offered. I took the thing apart and can send you photos of the insides of the compressor. Shrapnel everywhere!

    California Air Tools compressors are really junk and made from very poor materials... bad gaskets, cheap cast parts, etc etc.... Again, I can send you photos of the guts of mine.... it's scary how bad they are. You'd be better off with a harbor freight, in my opinion.

    If anyone wants to chime in and say how great their California Air Tools compressor is, I'd just say, throw on the old Randy Travis record: it's just a matter of time

  14. #14
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    For your needs it has to be a 240 Volt motor. A 120 motor maxes out at about 1.5Hp. What are you piercing that takes hours to do?
    Bill D.

  15. #15
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    I'll try to help out here. I don't exactly know what "Piercing" is, but I think I have an idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by William C Rogers View Post
    This is a better definition of my needs. Occasional use of air impact wrench, die grinder, nailers (framing, finishing, Brad and pin).
    I would be looking for compressor that can put out at least 7cfm for these. The die grinder uses a fair bit of air, and to set the seals on a impact wrench takes a good burst of initial air.

    The compressor I have is bare minimum for some of these, but none are extended use so that is ok. I am a turner and need to blow chips of myself and the lathe. I also pierce using a dental handpiece and it required ~38 psi continuous as it can take a couple of hours to pierce at a time. The current compressor cycles during use about 4 minutes on and 3 minutes off.

    This is a greater than 50% duty cycle for the motor and compressor. It's actually pretty amazing that it's lasted this long. You definitely need a larger tank, and higher capacity compressor. I would at minimum double, if not triple, the current CFM rating of CH Compressor.

    It's loud and even with ear protection it is annoying. The California Air is quiet. I want quiet, but don't want it constantly running or quickly cycling to keep up with the hand piece. The 2hp 10 gallon is quiet and even considering adding another 10 gallon storage tank.

    Based on your description of your current compressor, these two choices are going to run. Not continuously, but just a little less than what you currently have. They'll end up with a duty cycle of less than 50%, but not by much.
    I don't have a way to put it outside as I have no buildings and don't want to build a cover for a 20+ year old compressor. For comparison a small pancake compressor cannot keep up at all with the handpiece.

    If you look on the internet, you'll find solutions for building sound attenuating enclosures for compressors. You may just need to make one sized appropriately for your current shop. I'm talking about a large "crate like structure" with insulation. Look at the Zombie Box website for ideas.
    Since I have very little knowledge regarding selection of compressors should I look for the largest tank size, highest psi, higest SCFM, to optimize my requirements? 110 or 240 is ok. I'm looking for low cost as I'm just a hobbiest and want the best low cost choice.


    You're looking for CFM at a given pressure. CFM would be your over riding selection criteria.
    One strategy that could be used, is to purchase two smaller, quieter, compressors and put them in parallel when in use. Minus some small losses, the resultant discharge is additive for compressors in parallel. Add a supplemental air receiver tank, and you might be in business.
    If you're going to go the single dedicated route, than I think you're looking at a 60 gallon, 5HP air compressor rated for 12-15cfm.
    I have the Rolair V5160PT03X. It's not super loud, probably quieter than your CH, but it won't rattle your teeth, and when it cycles I don't need hearing protection in the garage, unless I'm right next to it. It has a lower high end psi rating, but the CFM is fairly good. 17cfm at 90psi. More than enough for air tools.
    That dental tool you're using is what you need to purchase for. However many CFM it takes to run, triple it. I think you're going to find that a compressor rated for 12-15cfm at 90+ psi is the range you want to be in.
    If the current compressor truly is 4 minutes on and 3 minutes off, you really want to reduce that. Unless you have good mechanical and chemical( desiccant cartridge) moisture separation and removal built into your current setup, you're operating that tool with moisture saturated air after the first half dozen cycles.
    The more often a compressor cycles, the more moisture is brought into the system. At +50% duty cycle, for any length of time, the air coming out of the tool is saturated.
    Moisture removal is subject completely unto itself, but selecting the most appropriate compressor is the first step. After that it's filters, dryers, cooler, and separators.

    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 01-21-2018 at 7:14 AM.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

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