Tell me Why you like your Fret Saw or Block plane, Please

[Matt McCormick]

Hi Everyone, I have been thinking about Fret Saws and have read here and other places about how people really like your high end Fret Saws. I cant understand the difference between a $100 saw and a $20 Saw. Is it the ease of blade change, or the Stiffness of the blade because of the rigidity of the saw frame, I think it must be because of the rigidity..... but not sure as I am not an everyday user. Block planes I would like to understand if the ergonomic feel of the body is what is the Key or if the Blade adjustment is what is critical or is the l am a surgical Instrument maker by trade and a Mechanician for a University and I teach a Mechanical Design Class For Grad Students and one for undergrads. I am thinking of putting them on to the problem of Fret Saws and Block planes, So I would welcome your thoughts on Fret Saws and Block Planes. Thanks for any Help on this subject. -matt

[Chuck Nickerson]

I have and love the Knew Concepts frame and coping saws. Yet I will easily admit people did beautiful work before they were invented and continue to do beautiful work without them. Why do I like them?

1. Ease of blade changing. This means I'm more willing to tackle complex patterns.
2. Balance between weight and stiffness. This means I can cut on the push if convenient.
3. I like owning quality tools.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a Knew Concepts fret saw and use it for removing waste on dovetails. Works very well.

My favorite block plane is a Stanley 65 knuckle joint plane with a PM-V11 blade.

Mike

[Pat Barry]

Block planes are simple tools, easy to manage, fit the hand nicely, are lightweight, simple to adjust, work well in tight places, can be carried in a pocket, don't require lots of fussy adjustment in order to work well.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I can't speak much to fret saws but I can share thoughts on block planes.

To me the point of a block plane is to be "handy"- to perform odd jobs and in situ work (i.e. off the bench), with only one hand required for control. Otherwise it doesn't really do anything another tool can't do as well or better.

So it follows that ergonomics will be extremely important- you need to able to securely grip and control the plane with one hand. I would say this dominates the other characteristics.

My block plane is a Lie-Nielsen 60-1/2, which is similar to old Stanley designs, just made a bit heavier and to more precise tolerances. It has similar ergonomics to those older Stanleys, and I find it comfortable enough. It is pretty heavy though, and if it were any heavier it would adversely affect the ergonomics, because the additional grip strength required to control it becomes tiresome. So, both weight and shape play a role.

The LN 60-1/2 is a bit on the large side for block planes, which I like because it also allows it to be used with two hands, and to do some bench-plane work if required.

Since you mentioned the adjustment mechanism...the one on my LN is not that great. It is a bit tight/hard to turn and there is no mechanism for lateral adjustment, you just tap the blade left or right with a small hammer. In practice this is no problem, because I have no trouble setting the shaving depth and lateral adjustment, it holds that setting perfectly, and once I've set it I rarely need to change it until the next sharpening. So while a better adjuster would be nice, it isn't that important and I'd rather have an ergonomic tool with a crappy adjuster than the other way around. (Not that the LN adjuster is "crappy", it's just very bare bones).

The other qualities I like in my block plane are related to quality of manufacturing and are the same as for any other kind of plane- flat sole, solid blade bedding, good steel, etc. These are the basic requirements to do fine work, but some of the cheaper block planes are very hit or miss on these.

If I were designing a new block plane I think I would basically keep the "classic" shape and adjustment mechanisms and focus on removing any excess material so that the tool can be made lighter, but without sacrificing precision. The high-end tools of today are a little heavier than they need to be in my opinion, perhaps because the heft is perceived as quality by customers, but in heavy use that can get old quickly, especially for a one-handed tool used in oddball situations.

[Matt McCormick]

Thank you Guys...... I am thinking of just putting out a Old Jewelers saw I have and a older Millers-Falls Coping saw along with an Old Stanley Block plane and a LN 102 and ask if someone wants to try to improve them as a Project. My students over the years have lost the ability to use tools, They are awesome at Computer Design and Analysis, But these kids, about 80% of them have never used a Screwdriver..... Never even worked on a Bicycle let alone a Car. So When I get them they assume using a hand tool is easy...... But they have no built up intuition of how the Basic motor skills most of us over 40 years old had when we were 19 years old..... We are talking about people who are about to graduate with a B.S Degree in Mechanical Engineering, I don't have them long enough to help them understand machining and Hands on Skills of making things . But they have picked engineering as what they want to do with their lives. These are smart people..... But the world is changing..... So I deal with what I deal with. Out of 100 students about 10 get it and work to learn some machining and Hands on skills.... I am 62 years old and am lucky to relate well to them and I leave a mark on most of them..... Probably the Grandfather thing....
So I am encouraging some of them to Do a project like this instead of the usual Robotic Drill for a Satellite mission to a asteroid, that always ends up buying a coredrill and then running out of time before they design how to actuate it. I have the Best Job in the world, But I am a Dinosaur, and the new world is coming in.... I think not teaching Machining and Hand tool skills leads to a poorer engineer.... But I am not the one who decides what an engineer learns. I have pointed out to my Dept Chair That every Student assistant I get and spends a Semester with me gets a Internship with JPL and ends up getting a very Good job after Graduation...... Please Keep those thoughts coming on the Block plane and Fret saws..... Thankyou !!!

[Peter Christensen]

I have and believe the Veritas NX-60 / DX-60 are about as good as you can get in a block plane. Short of having it made in Titanium or a Ceramic to reduce weight I don't think there is much that could be improved. If your students need a challenge and can make something better they are the benchmark.

[Jim Koepke]

I am not the one who decides what an engineer learns.

In the old days an engineer would imagine an item, draw the item and then make the item before it was released to production.

Now many engineers do not understand the problems the foundry or machinist might encounter trying to make something they put together on a computer screen.

What things make me like my Knew Concepts Fret Saw?

The mechanism for holding the blade is much better than any of my older fret saws. One common problem for my older saws is the blade popping out of the holder in the middle of a cut.

The mechanism for adjusting and tightening the blade tension on the KC saw is very helpful at tensioning the blade. It is nonexistent on many of my earlier saws. The KC saw also allows the user to release tension at any time. A properly tensioned blade is less likely to snap in the cut. My KC saw still has the original blade. With my other fret saws it would have likely snapped by now.

The light weight equals less mass. Less mass leads to less inertial momentum to draw the cut off track. The lower weight also makes the saw easier to use and control.

The KC fret saw is also available with a way to rotate the blade without releasing the tension. This is a very handy feature in many cases.

All but a very few of my block planes are low angle bevel up models. These excel at smoothing end grain. The feel in hand is also important. If there is one thing that could be changed about my LN #60, it would be the weight. My right hand suffers from an old injury and holding a heavy block plane for a prolonged time is uncomfortable.

jtk

[Bruce Haugen]

I have several block planes: an ECE, a vintage Stanley 60-1/2, some dogmeat off-brand, and a Veritas DX60. The vintage Stanley is somewhat easier to use for a long session of planing simply because it is lighter. The Veritas is superior in nearly every way. I treat it as a small smoothing plane. The Norris-style blade adjustment mechanism, the solid feel and ergonomics all contribute to a wonderful feeling, precision instrument. I grew up with the Stanley 60-1/2 so I've been using it for (cough) years. For ordinary work, it is my go-to block, and is the one I'll take along when there is a slim chance someone else might try to use it. Had I not been given the Veritas, it would be my preferred block plane. The ECE was given to me by a good friend, and if it weren't for that I'd dump it. Because of the way the big knob also acts as the pushing surface, it goes out of adjustment frequently and by a lot.

[Bill McDermott]

I have a coping saw with a coping saw blade and it works great, for example... coping pine trim. However, the Knew fret saw does much finer work. It's thin, taut blade fits into a dovetail saw kerf and allows for precise work.

My Great Grandfather's 65 1/2 block plane now holds a modern blade and is a classic "go to" tool. It gets used on virtually every project. The single word I would use to describe its best design element is versatility.

Matt, You may enjoy reading Matthew Crawford's book The World Beyond Your Head. He does a VERY thorough job of exploring the issue of hands on making and the lack thereof.

[Derek Cohen]

I'd suggest ideas to improve the Veritas DX60 (I shall not recommend the NX60 as I am not sure if it is yet available again). Ditto the new concepts 3" and 5" fretsaws.

These lead the way for others.

EDIT: change the DX60 to a Stanley 60 1/2. The DX60 is dang near perfect. The Stanley has room for work, plus they can mess with a cheap one to experiment with ideas.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

My new Stanley 60 1/2 low angle block plane replaced a cheap contractor version. When they first came out they were $50 introductory pricing, that I liked.
It fits my large hands well, has good weight and an excellent blade. I am very happy with it, can't imagine spending considerably more to replace something that's such a pleasure to use.

[Prashun Patel]

I don't use the 60 1/2" style much. I prefer the apron or small fixed-mouth size more. Some nice-to-haves:

Better ergonomics on the pull stroke. When chamfering the ends of a post, I hate having to reposition myself or the work in order to come in from both sides to avoid blowing out a corner.
A rabbet style plane in the apron size. For larger work, I prefer a shoulder plane to the LN rabbeting block. But for small work, a rabbeting apron-size plane would be very useful for me.
A more robust wheel design. I drop my blocks more than any other tool. Maybe it's the smooth, rounded cap. The tension wheel tends to suffer abuse badly. I sent my LN102 back to LN to fix, and even they couldn't do it.

I am not even sure this is possible, but I would LOVE to have a short bodied block plane - one with a normal sized nose, but a shortened heel. This would almost become a 'block spokeshave', which would improve the versatility in concave situations. I'm not talking about shaping tight curves; I'm talking about faring gradual curves on table and chair parts.

[john zulu]

There was other fret saw before Knew Concepts. Most of them did not retain the tension well enough.

Block plane. I have too many? Mostly the ergonomics. One handed apparatus? The list goes on.

[Jim Koepke]

One of my small block planes is an unknown maker's answer to a Stanley #101. It is 3-1/2" long (88mm) and fits in the palm of my hand comfortably. It is used in the house by the fire place to make shavings to ignite a flame from embers. The plane is held in hand while a piece of kindling is run down the plane. The shavings mostly remain in my hand. Some of our kindling has the smoothest edges.

jtk