Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 25 of 25

Thread: Which 4x8 commercial CNC?

  1. #16
    If he's willing to look at used, here is one I'd go see.... in New Mexico, not too far for me. Not sure where the OP is located. This one has a real spindle and tool changer, vacuum pump and the whole works. Way bigger and more industrial than what we have been talking about, but I suspect it was well north of $75-$100k when new.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 04-29-2018 at 10:08 AM.
    Brian Lamb
    Lamb Tool Works, Custom tools for woodworkers
    Equipment: Felder KF700 and AD741, Milltronics CNC Mill, Universal Laser X-600

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Cleveland OH
    Posts
    187
    Make sure to get a quote from Laguna - We have two of there smartshop 2s and they have been preforming beautifully. Our first one was in the 60K range with all the upgrades we needed, paid for itself and our second router in six months.

    Dont forget to check out ebay - I see two lagunas for sale, a few shopbots and several very nice Thermwood routers. We bought our second Laguna router off ebay and got a nice deal for a 1 year old machine. Shops are going out of business everyday so theres always a deal somewhere.
    3X Camfive 1200 48" x 24" 100watt Tube
    Zcorp 450 3d Printer
    Laguna Smartshop 2 - 4x8 ATC

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Medina Ohio
    Posts
    3,286
    If you go used there are a lot of big iron units to choose from. I check out IRS auctions That is Industrial recovery auctions they have some very good deals.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Iowa USA
    Posts
    2,757
    Unless you already have a built in market or business spending $60k on a top of the line router table may work for some areas and some owners or it may not. You have to wonder when you see all the like new machines on Craigslist or eBay.

    In this area years ago I had a PlasmaCAM set up and did some advertising locally and online. I did not manufacture anything special and but I had some customers. But since I did not do metal fabrication it was small change work. I was breaking even.

    Sold to a local company that did metal fabrication and they used it, but was it a money maker for them? I do not know.

    Keith is making money with his router, but I am sure it did not come overnight and he has the business skills to make it work.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa. , Ray Fine 20w Galvo Fiber laser , LightObject 40w CO2. MakerGear M2 3D Printer. Qe60+ Vinyl cutter. Automation Tech Chinese 6040 Router running on Mach3 and UC400ETH

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Canton, MI
    Posts
    434
    I'm in the process of selling my Camaster Panther and focusing on its replacement. I'm also using Vectric Vcarve Pro and Mozaik. It was important to me to stay with a WinCNC based machine...I don't want to relearn a control system or be forced into different software solutions every time I buy a new machine. Something else may be more important to you...decide what's important and it becomes much easier to drill down to machines meeting your criteria. Brad listed some really nice machines above and they're worth a look.

    So for me, the two most important criteria is a solid,beefy welded frame and WinCNC control. Much of my other criteria is similar to yours, 4'x'8' or 5'x8' (look at the cutting area as many of the 4'x8' machines will have a large enough cut area to cut 5'x5' baltic birch), 10hp ATC spindle (very little price difference to a 5hp ATC) with 8-10 tools, phenolic bed with vacuum plenum (I'll add t-tracks to the bed if it not available), popup pins, and remote keypad. Laser is nice but not mandatory for me (especially with popup pins for locating parts). Mister is nice but not a requirement for me either (I can air cool or manually mist for as little metal work as I intend).

    One other thing to consider is ease of lubrication/maintenance. Look at every lube point on the machine and decide how you would access it. Do you need to tighten belts and how hard are they to access? Longevity on a CNC will depend, in part, on how well they are maintained.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Dawson Creek, BC
    Posts
    738
    The fact you have a Martin saw, and a Kundig sander jumps out at me. Those are all high quality machines and my guess is you pay close attention to details that some might not. Power seems to driving much of the decision, so that puts many of the industrial machines out of the running.

    If you were planning for a lot of cabinets I would have suggested a drill bank, but that adds about another 10k to the price. As a two man shop I do not think the cut speed is all that dire. I think any machine that cuts reliably at a speed of around the 600ipm will suit you fine. To really keep one of these machines humming you need a large volume (or standard products) and someone creating gcode constantly. If you get to that volume the speed difference will make increase your daily output, but as a two man show you can both be doing other things while the machine is cutting.

    I think you will be fine for software until you get sick of tracking down all the hardware specs for the various parts you use and having multiple files for your projects. Many use link! because it keeps track of most of the specs for the typical parts we use, creates the gcode, and the drawings can be used for submittals. There are many other options out there too, but other than ecabs, they are all expensive and costly to maintain your license annually. I believe James McGrew uses Mozaik, so I am sure it is good too. It is not all that important a company list your specific machine. Other than small software companies, they all can create a custom post processor for you. I use a software package that is more common for steel milling machines and they made a custom post for me after I sent them the manual for WinCNC. Gcode is pretty well standardized, but the variables used can be re-arranged and options in each post can be different. Software companies have people that know how to modify the posts to make them work for different machines. The cost of the initial post was included in my original purchase price.

    For the vacuum, power is going to be the limiting factor as you clearly understand. Keep in mind that the cut forces increase the larger the cutter as well as the speed. Also, the flow through increases as the diameter of the cutter increases. Both of those factors lead to the need for larger vacuums (greater inHg and CFM). If you have looked at any used 4x8 machines you will notice the total hp of all the vacuums included in the offers can be closer to 20hp. Gwizard is a good software package that allows you to estimate the vacuum needed, and estimate your cut speeds based on your machine stiffness and spindle size. Many of use use vacuum's 10hp or less, but we cut at slower speeds and many times need to leave an onion skin for the final pass.

    Given some of the machines you own I think it is very important you go look at any machines on your short list. I believe you are in Florida, so it is not a long drive to find many different CNC's to look at. There are differences between industrial machines and some you have been looking at. I will leave it to you to read all about these differences on the woodweb. My guess is some of these differences might turn out to be important to you. I looked at a few of the different industrial machines and finding one of those in your HP range limits your options. Biesse offers the Rover J or Klever with a 5hp spindle, but many others do not sell anything with less than 12hp (common min. for HSK holders). I have priced out a Klever for myself, and it was in the realm of $75k CAD. That would might be around $5k over your budget in USD, but I think it might be very much worth it to you. There are some other machines too.
    Biesse Rover J Link!
    FMT Patriot!

    Again, I still think the lower cost machines will work fine just like they do so for so many others, but given your current machines there could be details you might be annoyed by. This is another industry where you definitely get what you pay for. I too am incredibly fussy. I started with one budget, doubled it, and now having used my machine for a few years now I know I should have increased it by about 50% or more. I have a quote for a new machine a few years away and it is $65k USD for 4'x8'.

    I agree with Jerome that a 60" wide table is nice. It is annoying to have to cut 12" off a sheet of baltic birch to cut out drawer parts. Downside is the cost and physical machine size. The common table size in the cabinet world is 5'x10' and those are much easier to re-sell if you ever needed too.
    Last edited by Brad Shipton; 01-09-2018 at 2:58 PM.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Titusville, FL
    Posts
    55
    Thanks everyone for your comments. I've decided to stay with CAMaster, their new Elite 408 will is 61" x 97" so I can cut 5' boards. I just do not have the room for 5x10. It was a stretch getting the room for an 8' machine.

    Honestly, their user base is impressive with lots of people willing to help and speaks highly of the machine, and they are close by.

    I did end up upgrading to a 15hp FPZ vacuum pump, added 5 hp spindle with ATC, Phenolic table top, popup pins and hand held remote.

    Unfortunately, they are on a 8 week backorder on machines being delivered due to demand.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Dawson Creek, BC
    Posts
    738
    Good choice. I am sure you will be happy with that. Their forum is really great and they have an amazing loyalty. I refer to that forum constantly even though I do not have one of their machines.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Medina Ohio
    Posts
    3,286
    Have you checked out the used one on the camaster forum

  10. #25
    Have you sold your Panther yet? If not, please PM me.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Biddle View Post
    I'm in the process of selling my Camaster Panther and focusing on its replacement. I'm also using Vectric Vcarve Pro and Mozaik. It was important to me to stay with a WinCNC based machine...I don't want to relearn a control system or be forced into different software solutions every time I buy a new machine. Something else may be more important to you...decide what's important and it becomes much easier to drill down to machines meeting your criteria. Brad listed some really nice machines above and they're worth a look.

    So for me, the two most important criteria is a solid,beefy welded frame and WinCNC control. Much of my other criteria is similar to yours, 4'x'8' or 5'x8' (look at the cutting area as many of the 4'x8' machines will have a large enough cut area to cut 5'x5' baltic birch), 10hp ATC spindle (very little price difference to a 5hp ATC) with 8-10 tools, phenolic bed with vacuum plenum (I'll add t-tracks to the bed if it not available), popup pins, and remote keypad. Laser is nice but not mandatory for me (especially with popup pins for locating parts). Mister is nice but not a requirement for me either (I can air cool or manually mist for as little metal work as I intend).

    One other thing to consider is ease of lubrication/maintenance. Look at every lube point on the machine and decide how you would access it. Do you need to tighten belts and how hard are they to access? Longevity on a CNC will depend, in part, on how well they are maintained.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •