Problem using aniline dye over wood filler

[Graeme Wend-Walker]

Hi all,

I'm brand new here and glad to be part of the community!

I'm working on my most ambitious project yet (a pine bookcase; I'm pretty new to woodworking).

I'm making up some swatches to work out how I'm going to finish it. (The plan is dye, then stain, then Danish oil. I used dye/stain/poly to make some hemlock curtain rods, and I was very happy with the result; I figure Danish will be easier to apply to a more complicated shape, and I'm not super worried about having tough surface protection. I know the pine will dent anyway.) So far, I've applied a water-based conditioner and water-based dye.

When I made up the pine blocks, I drilled a couple of small holes in each side and filled them with filler (Elmer's ProBond Stainable) so I could see what that would look like. In most cases, it produced a small patch a little darker and a little different in tone, which I'm okay with for this project (though I'd probably correct it if I knew how). You can see this in the top left of the image. My real concern is with the one at bottom right. Why has the wood around the patch not taken up the dye?

wood sample 1.JPG

I'd appreciate any insight you might offer.

~Graeme

[Jim Becker]

The one of the most important rules of thumb you can embrace in the future is to not use fillers like that (commercial or shop-made of glue/dust) if you can in any way use solid wood to fill things in. Fillers will NEVER take dye, stain or finish like the wood that surrounds them and will almost always be visible after the fact. And that's no matter what they say on the product label. It. Will. Not. Look. The. Same. Ever. If you do need to fill a hole with something non-wood, it's better to simulate a knot or other "natural" feature...epoxy dyed dark brown is a good bet for that and you don't need to worry about it taking dye or stain since it will be a different color anyway.

Of course, the absolutely best rule of thumb is to carefully choose the material for your projects so that you don't have to deal with repairing things. Material selection is the first step in finishing the project.

[Wayne Lomman]

In addition to what Jim says which I agree with, if you must use a filler, apply it after staining and applying the first coat of clear. At this stage you can see your final colour and you can match the filler to your job. Cheers

[Graeme Wend-Walker]

<p>
I certainly appreciate those thoughts, and I will keep all that in mind in future. But right now, I need to identify the cause of the problem so that I can hopefully eliminate it before I start finishing. Does no one have any idea why the wood didn&#39;t absorb the dye in these few cases? There can only be so many explanations...<br />
<br />
1) Filler on the surface (though elsewhere the filler sucked up the dye)<br />
2) Wood compacted in that area for some reason<br />
3) I possibly sanded those spots with finer paper (I&#39;ve heard it said that dye prefers a slightly rough surface)<br />
4) The small holes, despite being filled, created a larger surface area through which conditioner could be absorbed into the surrounding wood<br />
<br />
But I have no clue, I am only guessing.</p>

[Bennett Ostroff]

At this point your best bet - although not the finest of woodworking techniques - may be try one of those touch-up marker close to the color of the surrounding wood. I think you'd have to sand down more than you'd want to in order to get that area to take the dye/stain normally.

[John TenEyck]

I think your filler got smeared around the hole when you filled it, just like glue will when you wipe it off, and that filled the grain enough that it didn't take the dye as well as the raw area. What Wayne said is the way to use fillers; use them only after your sealer has been applied. That way, you can get the color right and the excess won't wet into the wood around the hole. Personally, I like TimberMate wood filler for smaller holes, as it comes in many colors, can be intermixed to give even more colors, you can add dye to it to change the color even more, and it's water soluble and never goes bad in the tub.

John

[Frederick Skelly]

I think your filler got smeared around the hole when you filled it, just like glue will when you wipe it off, and that filled the grain enough that it didn't take the dye as well as the raw area.
John

Hi Graeme. Welcome to the Creek. Glad to have you join us!

My thoughts match Mr. TenEyk's. I would sand the entire surface of that block again and re-dye. Off my head, I think I'd start with 120 grit to try to make sure sanding takes off the surface with the smeared filler.

Fred

[George Bokros]

Personally, I like TimberMate wood filler for smaller holes, as it comes in many colors, can be intermixed to give even more colors, you can add dye to it to change the color even more, and it's water soluble and never goes bad in the tub.

John

I am with John on this, Timbermate is my go to filler for all the reasons John cites.

[Jim Becker]

I certainly appreciate those thoughts, and I will keep all that in mind in future. But right now, I need to identify the cause of the problem so that I can hopefully eliminate it before I start finishing. Does no one have any idea why the wood didn't absorb the dye in these few cases?

When you apply a filler or glue or whatever, it can contaminate the surrounding wood, closing pores and sealing it so any dye or stain will not react normally with the wood. That's your answer to that particular question.

[Bob Wingard]

Try putting down a small piece of painter's tape where you will be drilling the hole. Fill the hole if you really have to use filler ... let it dry ... remove the tape ... dye/stain. Your picture looks like you smeared either filler or glue around the hole.

A better option would be to drill a hole ... use that as an access point to your fastening device ... get a plug cutter that matches the diameter of the hole ... cut plugs out of similar face-grain wood ... match the grain as much as possible ... a drop of glue in the hole & tap in the plug.

[Graeme Wend-Walker]

Thanks again, all. Before seeing the most recent posts I ran a few tests, and they confirm what you all say - it's due to invisible traces of filler on/in the surface. Fortunately, I've only been using test pieces so far. Before I dye the bookcase, I'll go over it with some mineral spirits (which reveals the problem areas immediately, thank goodness) and see if a scraper/sandpaper will help.I can see that in future, I need to keep away from filler. I've been using it in places it wasn't even needed - for instance, to fill small gaps that could have been left alone. In some cases it was nail holes; but I didn't need to nail it. You live and learn!~Graeme