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Thread: Calling all owners of Lie-Nielsen Scraping Planes; 212 112 85

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Dublin, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Patrick; that shaving on the left looks more like a smoothing plane shaving than a scraper plane shaving.
    That was sort of the point.

    If you know what you're doing you can get a scraper plane to take a shaving that is hard to distinguish from a plane shaving. That shouldn't be a surprise, because the cutting mechanics are fairly similar (albeit with angles on the high end of the range) if the hook is set properly. Note also how vertical my iron is - that reduces cutting angle at the expense of reduced clearance. The back of the hook has to be well-formed for that to work though.

    For the shavings in that picture I turned the hook on my 112's iron with the burnisher held 15 deg below horizontal (30 deg above the 45 deg face of the iron). Assuming I did it precisely, the tip would have ~15 deg of clearance behind the cut and a cutting angle less than 15 + 45 = 60 deg with the iron held vertical (which is basically what I did). Those parameters are very much compatible with "plane-like shavings".

    To get a shaving like that from your 81 you'd have to turn a steeper burr, to keep the cutting angle in the "plane-like shaving range" despite the steeper forward lean of the iron. The 81 really isn't designed to be used the same way as a 112. As I've said several times in this thread, scrapers have a huge range of applications, with different tools, techniques, and setup requirements.

    EDIT: The hook gets "squished" during turning so the cutting angle is less than the starting edge angle (45 deg in this case) plus the clearance (15 deg in this case), but I don't know how much less. If I have some spare time I may burr, section, and image a piece of 1095 this weekend to find out.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 01-19-2018 at 10:04 PM.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Australia
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    2,534
    The following is the process i have settled on to form a hooked edge on my Stanley #81 Scraper Plane.

    Others will recommend that you should continually remove the wire edged formed on the non bevel side of the scraper blade prior to turning the hooked edge with the burnisher. I would recommend you take the time to experiment with all the options available, and choose a method that will best work for you.

    Stewie;

    A 60 degree flat bevel is filed along the cutting edge, and then checked against a straight edge.



    The wire edge formed on the non bevel side of the cutting edge during filing is removed on a sharpening stone. The blade is then held upright at 90 degrees to the sharpening stone and the edge is jointed to form an exact straight edge. The resulting wire edge on the non bevel side of the cutting edge is again removed.



    From this stage onwards, the wire edge that's formed during further stoning work is not removed, but is allowed to further increase in size prior to being turned over by the burnisher to create a hooked edge.

    A fast cutting crystolon oil stone is the 1st stone to be used to form a slightly steeper secondary bevel. The wire edge formed is quite heavy to the touch and reaches across the full width of the blade.



    The secondary bevel is further worked on a finer grit stone to further increase the size of the wire edge.



    The process is again repeated on a final finer grit stone.



    The cutting edge of the blade is then secured in a bench vise, with the burnisher held at 15 degrees to the primary face of the blade, The edge is then worked by the burnisher at that constant angle to form the hooked edge. Generally 2-3 full strokes are required.



    The scraper blade is now ready for a performance test.

    The 1st lot of shavings were taken with the blade cambering screw disengaged. Moderate force is required to work each of the shaving due to the full width of cutting edge being in contact with the woods surface.



    The next lot of shavings are with the blade cambering screw in service with a 1/2 turn. The force required is slightly less than the non cambered blade as less blade width is in direct contact with the wood surface.



    The final shavings were taken with a full turn of the cambering screw. The force required is slightly less than that set with a 1/2 turn of camber.


  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Marina del Rey, Ca
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    SS--well done and thank you.
    "Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."

  4. #124
    Derek,Pete,Patrick and Stewie, I thank you for your help and encouragement. I have spent the better part of this weekend working with the 112 and feel pretty confident that I can use it well. I can say when I get a tough grain problem I'll go to it. I think it may open the door to using more unusual grained woods that in the past I have shunned due to tearout. 95% of the time I have been able to deal with issues with a plane but this is another avenue of help. I think I used up a good 1/16" of the iron trying all the different suggestions and learning a bit about burr angles in this tool.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Leistner View Post
    Derek,Pete,Patrick and Stewie, I thank you for your help and encouragement. I have spent the better part of this weekend working with the 112 and feel pretty confident that I can use it well. I can say when I get a tough grain problem I'll go to it. I think it may open the door to using more unusual grained woods that in the past I have shunned due to tearout. 95% of the time I have been able to deal with issues with a plane but this is another avenue of help. I think I used up a good 1/16" of the iron trying all the different suggestions and learning a bit about burr angles in this tool.
    That's basically how I learned.

    After all that I've said here, I do want to reiterate one cautionary note that Warren also sounded in the other thread: You can create basically the same tearout-preventing edge geometry as a hooked scraper with more precise and more readily changeable control using a close-set cap iron in a bevel-down bench plane. Surface quality is also maximized by keeping our edges pristine rather than burnishing. As a bonus you, you can see what's going on with your edge geometry without having to destructively section your iron.

    Although I created a 3 mil hook in the "image" thread and demonstrated a 2-mil scraper shaving earlier in this thread, I wouldn't use a scraper plane set up like that for real work because those are both in the range that I can easily achieve using a plane. The point of the former was to show how a hooked scraper can create continuous plane-like shavings (in response to the OP's question from way back when), while the latter was to make the burr easier to image. At this point I mostly use scrapers for super-fine work on stuff like burl.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 01-21-2018 at 4:09 PM.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
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    Just used that Stanley #70 SW yesterday.....
    Stanley Scraper plane.jpg
    Had a ridge along a glue joint to flatten out..
    shavings.jpg
    Wood is Ash. Wasn't in the mood for see-through stuff.....had work to do. This was in a spot that the other plane was just skipping over...
    face planed.jpg
    YMMV

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