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Thread: Hand cut joinery beginner

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Plano, Tx
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    Hand cut joinery beginner

    I'm new to the world of woodworking, having done pretty basic projects with a miter saw, circular saw, pocket holes, brad nailer, etc. in the past. With the help of my brother-in-law I made a jewelry box for my daughter this past November and decided I enjoyed it enough to dive in deeper. I bought a basic set of chisels, some supplies to sharpen them with (scary sharp method), a japanese saw, and a few other things and dove in.

    I've been practicing dove tails on poplar blanks and have been struggling with keeping the angled cuts next to the line I mark. As a musician I'm familiar with practice aides (metronome, tuner, etc.) and decided to make myself a little template to help get a feel for the angle I need to cut at.

    IMG_2585.jpg

    It's nothing fancy, and I know I could go buy one of many dovetail guides but I spent my budget for the time being on some other tools so I made this from scrap. I don't use it to actually mark the lines for the cuts (I have a t-bevel and combination square for that) but I've found it very helpful so far with regard to getting a feel for what angle the saw should be at, etc. As long as I make sure my workpiece is square to my vice jaw

    IMG_2583.jpg

    I can use it to act as a guide for how to place my saw. So far, it has been very helpful and I'm seeing some progress in my cuts!

    IMG_2589.jpg IMG_2584.jpg

    As a musician and orchestra teacher I am acutely aware of the process versus product mentality and so far I am really enjoying the process of learning this craft!11

  2. #2
    Welcome Brian. You've got a great mindset that'll take you far in this craft. With dovetails, its just practice, practice, practice. Think about making an "Anarchist Toolchest" as your next project. It'll be a great home for your tool collection and require you to cut TONS of dovetails. Also, opinions vary, however, I believe its easier for beginners to control a western saw. Veritas has some great values, but you cant go wrong with a Lie Nielsen. Best of luck to you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    9,468
    Hi Brian

    I believe that a rounded woodworker is a better woodworker, that is they have all round skills with both machines and hand tools. There are some techniques that lend themselves better to one area than another, and dovetailing is more aesthetic when done by hand.

    There are two articles on my website that may interest you in your pursuit. These deal with the use of blue tape when transferring marks ...



    Half-blind dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...hBlueTape.html

    Through dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...ovetails3.html



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  4. #4
    Most folks when they begin (myself included) try to force the saw..try to let the saw do the work. When Lee Valley came out with magnetic dovetail guides, I spent $$$ pronto. The japanese saws are very wide and using the magnet helped me get muscle memory and made my skills improve. keep at it, and enjoy your new hobby
    Be the kind of woman that when your feet hit the ground each morning, the devil says, "oh crap she's up!"


    Tolerance is giving every other human being every right that you claim for yourself.

    "What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts are gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts will happen to man. All things are connected. " Chief Seattle Duwamish Tribe

  5. #5
    Everyone's going to have so much advice. here's mine :

    Take all the advice and practice. That is to say, the quality of the saw, the guide, the sharpness of your pencil/knife line, the tape, are all a distant second to building muscle memory.

    Like riding a bike, eventually you get it, and then you almost can't make yourself UNget it.

    I see you are using a dozuki. One neat thing about cutting on the pull stroke (at least with thinner boards and softer woods) is that you can do dovetails without a vise. You place the board flat on the bench and often don't even need to apply a clamp or holdfast. You can hold it steady with your other hand. This has the disadvantage of making you stoop down, but has the advantage of placing the piece at eye level. I find that this position is also ergonomic for sawing along two faces simultaneously, which (for me) encourages a straighter cut. Sighting like this has made (for me) angled cuts on the pins a non issue.

    But again, with enough practice, angled, straight up and down - none of it will matter. Challenge yourself to build muscle memory: it is rewarding and makes you faster.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 01-04-2018 at 11:22 AM.

  6. #6
    University of YouTube!!

    Paul Sellers, Garrett Hack, Frank Klausz will all give different variations on doing DT's.

    I've learned a ton watching build videos where you will see various ways to do joinery.

    + What Prashun said. In my experience, you really do need the best tools you can afford.
    Last edited by Robert Engel; 01-04-2018 at 10:29 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Austin Texas
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    I like to position my tail board (tails first kind of guy) in the vise such that my saw cut will be vertical (plumb) rather than angled. I use the dovetail guide to adjust the angle of the tail board in the vise by holding the guide up on the top edge of the vise chop top and rotate the tail board to lay against the angled side of the guide (1:8, 1:7, etc).
    David

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Eisenhauer View Post
    I like to position my tail board (tails first kind of guy) in the vise such that my saw cut will be vertical (plumb) rather than angled. I use the dovetail guide to adjust the angle of the tail board in the vise by holding the guide up on the top edge of the vise chop top and rotate the tail board to lay against the angled side of the guide (1:8, 1:7, etc).
    It was suggested to me that if you do this, you can first concentrate on learning to cut vertically, which can really help.

    At this point, I don't bother to do it, but, I would for sure be more consistent if I did.

    Your saw cuts look pretty good so far.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Try sawing alongside the line, not on the line (save the line). The line will be helpful as a reference when you cut as compared to removing /erasing the line.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    N. Idaho
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    Be mindful, but don't be afraid to make mistakes. Part of craft is learning how to recover from the inevitable ooops moments

    We'll all look forward to seeing your efforts. And (very nearly all) of us also use electrons without regret.

    Best,
    Chris
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  11. #11
    The poplar would being so soft is not necessarily making matters any easier. Some wood that is consistent, probably diffuse porous like maple, that will give a bit more resistance and not dent so easily at the corners will help the finished dovetails maintain their crispness without having to compensate with excessive wood protruding in order to trim back to sharper lines. On the other hand the poplar does compress easily and allows you to oversize your tails but that may not work for you as a remedy with harder woods which will want a truer fit right off the bat.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Longview WA
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    Howdy Brian and welcome to the Creek.

    Like the best dovetail cutting tips, the tools that are best are the ones that work for you.

    Whether you cut pins first or tails first doesn't matter. If one works better for you, then that is the way to do it.

    My most recent project was a simple box made of firewood:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-From-Firewood

    Most of my dovetail cutting technique is included in that post.

    It is helpful to see how others handle the process. Many people explaining the same thing in different ways helps one to adjust the process into being their own.

    Your jewelry box project came out well:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...t=#post2759687

    Looking forward to seeing more.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Brian,being a Texan, you might go to Homestead Heritage in Elm Mott Texas (near Waco) and take an elementary class in hand tool wood working.
    When I went about 20 years +/- ago , I took a three day class where we learned to use a hand tools to make basic joints.
    Now all of my adult children have rocking chairs that I have built.

    OBTW, I took a rocking chair class there as well. That is where I learned how to make chairs.
    Last edited by lowell holmes; 01-05-2018 at 6:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Follow up to my previous post. I'm not selling anything, just relating my experience.
    IIRC they had a one day session where we were introduced to the use of a dove tail saw, chisels, and a mallet. In the next class, IIRC it was three days.
    We learned what a proper chisel was, how to sharpen it, and how to use it. The chisels never see a grinder, only stones and strops. The chisels are scapel sharp.
    The saws cut strait and fast. We learned to cut boards square, make dove tail joints and mortises. IIRC, we made a simple book shelf out of white pine.
    All of the skills of a beginning woodworker were started. It was an enjoyable experience.
    They have a small restaurant there as well.

  15. #15
    Robert mentioned a few Youtube woodworkers who have excellent videos, however, I have found that the more people you watch, one of them seems to turn the light on for you and suddenly you realize they are ALL correct.

    For a fresh face who speaks with an accent, check out Matt Estlea on Youtube....

    And for the "mechanics" of hand sawing, I quite enjoy the RenaissanceWW, who not only post videos on Youtube but also has a great blog on the net. Matt does too, come to think of it.

    Shannon (RenaissanceWW) just had a live presentation on Youtube where he would take questions, and the entire hour was all about sawing and the causes of peoples difficulty with this chore. Not *just* about dovetails, but all manners of hand powered sawing. He seems to have the knack for making sense of things and even gives you tips on how to check your own sawing mechanics/stance.

    Most people would simply say "sit down", but occasionally, you find someone who says the obvious: "Pull up a chair and sit down"! It makes all the difference to someone who has not yet mastered the basics, but once learned, all the other peoples instructions also make sense.

    Regards

    Christian
    Last edited by Christian Setla; 01-06-2018 at 12:33 AM.

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