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Thread: woodpeckers ultra-shear chisels

  1. #16
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    Pull chips?

    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    ...The other danger is that because of the cupped cutting edge - they can pull chips if you aren't careful. ...
    I'm curious what you mean by "pull chips." I'm not familiar with that term.

    JKJ

  2. #17
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    If you insist on carbide I suggest you look at Hunter Tool Systems. You cut with these tools not scrape. The new Viceroy tools are really nice.

  3. #18
    Jeffrey,

    Your post seems to me to be on the edge of condescending. But, assuming that is not your intent, my answer to your question is actually encompassed in my post above.

    Thanks
    Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey J Smith View Post
    I’m sorry but I just don’t get the aversion to sharpening. I, like many others use a wolverine jig for gouges - it takes all of 30 seconds to sharpen a gouge. Literally. The initial learning curve, if you’ve got an average attention span is about an hour. I’ll only sharpen once or twice while roughing for an entire day. finish turning means sharpening more often, but come on, is the project you’re working on important enough to spend less than a total of maybe 5 minutes refreshing an edge? Sometimes stepping away allows you to see what you’re actually doing from a new perspective.

    So, just what’s the big hurry?

  4. #19
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    I would really like to keep the focus on the woodpeckers blades and blade holders in comparison to others. The general merits of carbide vs. HSS isn't really the question here except how does the WP blade perform when compared to HSS in light of how other carbide performs. In other words, how good is it in shearing actions vs HSS vs other carbide? Can you really get a super smooth final cut with the WPs? Is the angled blade holder really an advantage? Or does it detract from the tool? It is well understood that carbide excels at roughing. But, assuming the WP shears as good as they claim, how is it at roughing? Is that somehow compromised by the better shearing features? Let's please stay away from the sharpening debate. That's for someone else's thread.

    Someone must own or at least have tried the WPs, or similar styles from another mfg? Please comment if you have.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I'm curious what you mean by "pull chips." I'm not familiar with that term.

    JKJ
    They can grab and yank a chunk out of your work... But that's a danger any time you are cutting and not scraping on a lathe...

  6. #21
    So looking more closely at those woodpecker tools and inserts - they look more like a very high grade of CPM HSS than "carbide".... That's not a bad thing - as I think some of the new super CPM HSS flavors would do really well as lathe insert tooling. For example - typical carbides are not good on impact strength of the edges... They are amazing for pure wear resistance, but chip fairly easily.... And so often tend to be ground at fairly blunt angles....

    From the ad copy - it certainly sounds like they have thought through many of the problems...

    Certainly give them a shot... I would start off buying a couple different inserts and try them out on your existing tool handles.

    Also - as I said before, be prepared to hone them on an extra fine diamond stone to keep them sharp - especially for a finish cut... I was doing this on carbide inserts and it made them cut a LOT better....

  7. #22
    Carbide is a lot like cement. There are different grades for different applications. "Micro-Grain" is marketing speak for the most part. "Micro" isn't exactly a technical term in this instance.

    nano-grain is the best grade for woodturning applications however it will never get as sharp as HSS just by its physical nature.

    understanding the basic properties of carbide will help you make a decision on what cutters to get. Whether or not you want to pay for a bar that is shaped with a built in 45 degree flat is up to you. Most turners are capable of rotating a tool to provide that angle whether they have a round bar, rectangular bar, or square bar.

    Here's a great overview on carbide:

    https://www.destinytool.com/carbide-substrate.html

    If you just want nano-carbide inserts to try, Kilian tool (out of Canada) sells just the cutters. $10 Canadian. (Which is like $2000 Uhmurican, I think....)

    hope this helps....

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Keeton View Post
    Thomas, turning is close kin to woodworking with hand tools - planes, chisels, etc. Unfortunately, sharpening is the very first activity necessary for quality work. There is nothing wrong with the carbide tools, but sooner than you think you will want to expand your skills with some quality gouges. The money you spent on the carbides would go a long way toward those. Just a thought.
    John you are absolutely right.I started turning with the carbide tools.They work good ...nothing wrong with them but the traditional tools work better and are cheaper in the long run.I still have my carbides but more and more I am going to the gouges ,skews,etc.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I'm curious what you mean by "pull chips." I'm not familiar with that term. JKJ
    Quote Originally Posted by John C Cox View Post
    They can grab and yank a chunk out of your work... But that's a danger any time you are cutting and not scraping on a lathe...
    By "grab and yank a chunk" do you mean a "catch" or are you referring to the tendencies of some tools to pull long fibers out of certain woods? (different from typical tearout)

    If you mean a catch, that indicates a serious need to work on tool presentation and control.
    Tearout, either what I call "micro" tearout or the larger, calls for taking lighter cuts with sharper tools and/or stabilizing soft or brittle wood.
    I do see longer fibers pulled out of side grain on spindles on certain types of wood with razor sharp skews, even with very light cuts. I go to a different tool in this case but not a scraper.

    The only carbide tools I use these days are the cupped cutters on the Hunter tools. Extremely sharp. I've never had any grabbing and yanking so that doesn't seem like an inherent danger with a cupped cutter. Maybe the cutters Mike Hunter uses are sharper than the type you are referring to. The small Hercules is my favorite, the second from the top in these photos:

    HUNTER4_side_IMG_20160803_1.jpg HUNTER4_top_IMG_20160803_10.jpg

    The small Hunter cutters are 6mm in diameter.

    JKJ

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas lucas View Post
    I would really like to keep the focus on the woodpeckers blades and blade holders in comparison to others. The general merits of carbide vs. HSS isn't really the question here except how does the WP blade perform when compared to HSS in light of how other carbide performs. In other words, how good is it in shearing actions vs HSS vs other carbide? Can you really get a super smooth final cut with the WPs? Is the angled blade holder really an advantage? Or does it detract from the tool? It is well understood that carbide excels at roughing. But, assuming the WP shears as good as they claim, how is it at roughing? Is that somehow compromised by the better shearing features? Let's please stay away from the sharpening debate. That's for someone else's thread.

    Someone must own or at least have tried the WPs, or similar styles from another mfg? Please comment if you have.
    Thomas.
    From the answers - I think it's pretty clear nobody here has tried them out......

    As you are - I am now curious myself. They look like a good enough idea... As I said in my earlier post - they sure look a lot like a CPM HSS tooling insert - which would explain how they can get the fine edge life and sharp tool geometry without problems crumbling and chipping.

    How about buying a few of the inserts ans trying them out on an existing handle - then posting us a review here..

    The inserts look like they run $6-20 each.. So not a huge $$$ outlay compared to buying a full set of the handles.

    I would especially be interested in finish cuts out of the box vs honed on extra-fine diamond stone.

  11. #26
    I don't own, but have used, the Ultra-Shear tools from Woodpeckers. While I'm a traditionalist with no carbide tools, I will say I thought they were WAY BETTER than the scraper type carbide tools. Finish is much more like a nicely sharpened gouge than the scraper tools will give you.

    Comparisons to standard scraper type tools just aren't valid in this case. Nicely made handle and shank too. So if you're going to use carbide tools, I'd recommend them.

  12. #27
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    Thanks for letting me know you'll be at the show, and for the further clarifications on the tools. I wasn't planning on going to the show this year. Last year it wasn't worth the cost, but might change my mind.
    Last edited by Steve Schlumpf; 01-04-2018 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Removed quote from post that was deleted

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Edwards View Post
    I don't own, but have used, the Ultra-Shear tools from Woodpeckers. While I'm a traditionalist with no carbide tools, I will say I thought they were WAY BETTER than the scraper type carbide tools. Finish is much more like a nicely sharpened gouge than the scraper tools will give you.

    Comparisons to standard scraper type tools just aren't valid in this case. Nicely made handle and shank too. So if you're going to use carbide tools, I'd recommend them.
    Thank you for this input!

  14. #29
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    Harold, What is "Uhmurican"?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey J Smith View Post
    I’m sorry but I just don’t get the aversion to sharpening. I, like many others use a wolverine jig for gouges - it takes all of 30 seconds to sharpen a gouge. Literally. The initial learning curve, if you’ve got an average attention span is about an hour. I’ll only sharpen once or twice while roughing for an entire day. finish turning means sharpening more often, but come on, is the project you’re working on important enough to spend less than a total of maybe 5 minutes refreshing an edge? Sometimes stepping away allows you to see what you’re actually doing from a new perspective. So, just what’s the big hurry?
    I have to agree. I started turning in woodshop in teh early 1960's. We were taught to use a grinder, basically freehand. I did not really learn how to sharpen until a few years later, a machinist showed me how to sharpen on a belt sander. Years later, along came the Wolverine, as most turners, I had to have one. After awhile I returned to the belt sander. Then cane the carbide, I had to try them, again I wasted my money. My belt sander is within 2 feet of my lathe, a simple twist of the body and flip of the switch and I am sharpening my chisels.

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