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Thread: Laguna 18-36 - any experience?

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    On Facebook I am a member of a group called Woodchuckers. A day ago a fellow posted the following: "Laguna Revo 18/36 110 V --WARNING


    "So excited, just received and set-up my Revo 18/36 110 V Lathe in my garage. Plug it in, and trip, there goes the GFI outlet. Come to find out that the 110 V model of the 18/36 will NOT OPERATE with GFI outlets. Also GFI outlets are code required for all garages. Nothing in the manual. Laguna has been of no help getting this resolved....Have talked with Laguna tech support multiple times. The issue is with the VFD Inverter. It is not compatible with GFI... "

    I don't know the veracity of this fellow's claims but thought that I would post it should it be of value to the OP trying to figure out whether to go 120 or 240. Personally I would go 240 because of a slight power increase and because GFCIs are not required on 240 volt circuits.

  2. #77
    I believe the VFD on the Laguna is the Delta S1, and is the same inverter used on many of the current model lathes, including PM, Jet and others. There are no GFI circuits in my shop and I suspect that is common. I doubt this is something Laguna would feel compelled to “resolve.” That may not be good news for folks with garage shops.

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    On Facebook I am a member of a group called Woodchuckers. A day ago a fellow posted the following: "Laguna Revo 18/36 110 V --WARNING


    "So excited, just received and set-up my Revo 18/36 110 V Lathe in my garage. Plug it in, and trip, there goes the GFI outlet. Come to find out that the 110 V model of the 18/36 will NOT OPERATE with GFI outlets. Also GFI outlets are code required for all garages. Nothing in the manual. Laguna has been of no help getting this resolved....Have talked with Laguna tech support multiple times. The issue is with the VFD Inverter. It is not compatible with GFI... "

    I don't know the veracity of this fellow's claims but thought that I would post it should it be of value to the OP trying to figure out whether to go 120 or 240. Personally I would go 240 because of a slight power increase and because GFCIs are not required on 240 volt circuits.

    If you go and search for GFCI here in the forum, you will find all kinds of posts with regards of the tripping of the GFCI, Grizzly, Jet, Delta, etc, all of these lathes will trip the GFCI, you will have to plug it into a non GFCI outlet, 120V or 240V.

    No reason to downplay the Laguna Quality, or customer support, or point to problems that are really part of the GFCI, as there are other power tools that will trip the GFCI, so why try to blame Laguna ??

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....t=GFI+tripping

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....highlight=GFCI

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....highlight=GFCI
    Last edited by Leo Van Der Loo; 03-18-2018 at 12:58 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Have fun and take care

  4. #79
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    Good points, Leo. I didn't mean to imply that the Laguna was defective. I believe that it uses the same inverter as my G0766 (which runs on 240 vac). Thanks for the links.

    From what I've read, the RF noise suppression capacitors on the inverters cause a small amount of ground current (capacitors from line to ground) and it is very close to the trip point of the GFCI devices. I think that the specs for the Delta inverter are <3.5 ma leakage. The gfci spec is 5 ma +/- 1ma. That is too close of a margin in my opinion. I think that GFCI's are, in general, problematic with heavier-duty electrical tools. They are probably fine for bathrooms and kitchens. There used to be an exception for garages if you used a ceiling drop or had the receptacle high enough or a dedicated circuit. But not any longer. Interestingly, if the person who posted on facebook dragged his new lathe into his living room or bedroom, he wouldn't need a GFCI. But he may have needed a divorce attorney.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice Rogers View Post
    Good points, Leo. I didn't mean to imply that the Laguna was defective. I believe that it uses the same inverter as my G0766 (which runs on 240 vac). Thanks for the links.

    From what I've read, the RF noise suppression capacitors on the inverters cause a small amount of ground current (capacitors from line to ground) and it is very close to the trip point of the GFCI devices. I think that the specs for the Delta inverter are <3.5 ma leakage. The gfci spec is 5 ma +/- 1ma. That is too close of a margin in my opinion. I think that GFCI's are, in general, problematic with heavier-duty electrical tools. They are probably fine for bathrooms and kitchens. There used to be an exception for garages if you used a ceiling drop or had the receptacle high enough or a dedicated circuit. But not any longer. Interestingly, if the person who posted on facebook dragged his new lathe into his living room or bedroom, he wouldn't need a GFCI. But he may have needed a divorce attorney.
    That's the problem with believing everything you read on the internet. So many people out there have no idea what they are complaining about. Just like the post recently with some guy on Youtube complaining that his new Laguna 18/36 "almost burnt my shop down"... which was total b.s. There was a bit of smoke from the VFD ... nothing more ...but instead of blaming the Delta VFD he was "sending back the lathe and would never buy a Laguna again". Pretty much every lathe I see with a VFD is one made by Delta so if the guy knew what he was talking about he would blame the right company...

  6. #81
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    Apr 2012
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    Brice, thanks for bringing this topic up.

    The Laguna 18-36 uses the Delta Electronics S1-series VFD, while the Grizzly G0766 uses the slightly newer model M1-series, but as you point out, VFDs don't like GFIs. As Leo notes, nuisance tripping is a known issue when any equipment with a VFD is used on a GFI-protected circuit, regardless of brand of VFD or equipment. Sometimes changing to a newer GFI receptacle with less sensitivity has been reported to help. It's not a defect in the VFD or, in this case, the 120v Laguna lathe. But since so many folks have garage workshops, where GFIs are common, I would think that there should be an alert about this in owner's manuals, or at least in the talking points at tech support for the equipment vendors.

    As noted, the NEC requires GFI receptacles in residential garages (and other potentially damp locations). See Mike Holt's discussion at http://http://www.ecmweb.com/code-ba...errupters-gfci

    Local building codes can vary in their adoption of various parts of the NEC, but as Holt notes, there are two exceptions to the NEC section at issue:

    "GFCI protection devices are also required for all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles located in garages and grade-level portions of unfinished or finished accessory buildings used for storage or work areas of a dwelling unit [210.8(A)(2)]. However, there are a couple of exceptions to this rule. GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible, such as a ceiling-mounted receptacle for a garage door opener. Nor are they required for a receptacle on a dedicated branch circuit located and identified for a cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a refrigerator or freezer."

    So, simply replacing a GFI receptacle in a garage with a non-GFI receptacle for the 120v lathe would be a code violation. But note the second exception: If the entire "branch circuit" (the wiring downstream from the final circuit breaker in the panel) is re-dedicated as a "dedicated branch circuit" and used only for the lathe, then the exception would seem to apply, without running a new dedicated circuit. But there typically is more than one duplex receptacle in a garage on the same branch circuit. If I were a turner with this issue, I'd check with the local building inspectors' office to see if, for example, replacing those GFI receptacles for twist-locks used only by the lathe and other stationary woodworking equipment might be acceptable.

  7. #82
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    Apr 2012
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    Brice, I reread your last post more carefully and saw that the dedicated branch circuit exception has been eliminated for garages in later NEC iterations. Indeed, I just checked the 2017 NEC and don't see it.

    If that change has also been adopted by the turner's local building code, that would rule out my suggestion for a possible "twist-lock" workaround in a garage shop!

    Interestingly, the 2017 NEC still allows the dedicated branch circuit exception in unfinished basements. Hmm. https://www.thespruce.com/nec-regula...-gfcis-1152273
    Last edited by David C. Roseman; 03-18-2018 at 8:50 PM.

  8. #83
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    Apr 2007
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    Circling back on this. I recently purchased the swing away tail stock. It's good. I have not been able to align it absolutely perfectly; the eccentric alignment bolts are just very slightly off at their apex. But it does not seem to matter. The tailstock still slides easily across and locks spindles just fine.

    This increases the capacity to 48". I didn't think the swing away would matter to me, but it did get heavy after 6 months.

    Another question: Does anyone know the thread size on the rotating live center? I would like to purchase a Robust reversing cone for it, but it's 3/4"x10 threads. I am pretty sure this is what the Laguna has... Anyone who knows or can easily test?

  9. #84
    It is the same thread - 3/4” x 10.

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  10. #85
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    My hero. Thanks, John!

  11. #86
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    John,
    I know you have the gap bed extension. It does not swing away, correct? I wonder why they did not just make a swing-away gap bed extension... As it is now, one has to choose between the two. Save your back or big league swing.

    Almost one year using this machine.

    I am quite happy. I especially have come to appreciate the belt changes. I use the slower setting for bowls, and the larger for spindles. It's quick and painless to switch.

    I do wish they have a power switch on the machine. I still go to the breaker box to cut power at the end of the day. That is annoying.

    I've been turning a bunch of green red oak this past month, and the ways rust quite quickly - it comes right off with wax and steel wool. However, my old Delta 46-460 seemed to develop its rust resistance quicker. I have to now be very particular about clean up after wet turning. Specifically, inside the tool rest - inside the clamping kerf. I have to floss that with a small hex key.

    I purchased a Robust inside bowl rest. At first I had an issue locking it down tight in the post. I also had some slip issues with the banjo lever. Both of those issues have abated over time. I bet a small amount of rust is working in my favor here.

    2 accessories have really been great for me:

    1) Hydrofarm Extension Cord - 240v - 12 ft. This allows me to mount the light on the tail stock bracket and reach the outlet which is near the headstock.
    2) Oneway Big Bite Chuck spur. I LOVE this. I have turned blanks off the chainsaw as large as 18" and this has held wonderfully. I take care to balance them reasonably well, but I have yet to have it slip during a rough-out. It fits both the G3 and SN2 Nova chucks.

  12. Prashun, if you are having any problem, don't hesitate to contact Laguna customer service even for an advice. I have to say they are awesome.
    I turn 2, 3 hours every day and my lathe's belt started to make some noise just a month ago. I wanted to change it and because I was going in the process to remove the spindle, I planned to change the spindle bearing too. The manual doesn't have any instruction or guide about replacing the belt so I sent an email just asking if I needed to be careful to anything in particular.
    Two days after I received an email from Laguna that they will ship a full new headstock and I will ship the old one back at no cost for me. Let me add also that my warranty expired a year ago.

  13. #88
    The bed extension does not swing away. However, one of the reasons I like the 1836 is that the tailstock does not present a physical challenge when removed. I am only 5’7” and I can handle the tailstock easily. I just don’t see the need for a swing away. On the other hand, the PM tailstock is quite heavy and uncomfortable for me to wrangle with any frequency.

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  14. #89
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    Apr 2007
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    New Jersey
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    Thanks John. Swing-away mattered more for me. I found the tail stock heavy enough, and the extension long enough that it was a good solution for me.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
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    51
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Circling back on this. I recently purchased the swing away tail stock. It's good. I have not been able to align it absolutely perfectly; the eccentric alignment bolts are just very slightly off at their apex. But it does not seem to matter. The tailstock still slides easily across and locks spindles just fine.

    This increases the capacity to 48". I didn't think the swing away would matter to me, but it did get heavy after 6 months.
    I have the 24-36 unit with the swing away tailstock unit, I too cannot get it to align correctly. I thought it was because mine is a different unit, but now I believe that the bed of my 24-36 is identical to the 18-36. It would appear then to be a design fault, in light of what you mention.

    As to why they didn't include a swing away system for the bed extension, I think the answer is one word, "mass". I also have the bed extension with the idea of sometimes placing that extension on the front to enable doing the rear/underside of bowls or anything else without the need to remove it from a chuck. The swing idea being that if I had the extension on the front and with the swing away on, I could swing the tailstock to remove the banjo then swing it back.

    The 24-36 tailstock has more mass than the 18-36 unit and the single mounting bracket would probably be at the design limit already, To swing an extension bed could be a completely different proposition from a safe design/long life situation.

    I have tried the bed extension on the front, works very well, better than I expected. Better than a front extension mounted on a Stubby lathe to do the exact same thing.

    Mick.

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