Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: MM16 Switch

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,356

    MM16 Switch

    Hi Folks,

    It has been a couple of weeks since the MM16 has been back in service, this time for good, finally.

    Many of you may be familiar w the issue of the switch for some of the MiniMax machines.

    I am posting this, after reaching a calmer state.

    The last 7 years have been, shall we say-frustrating.

    This particular switch is prone to failure. I have been told on account of the microswitches as a safety feature-if either door is opened, or the foot brake depressed, the saw will not work.

    But, hey, the last 4 months it didn't work either on account of the most recent switch not working.

    SCM (Minimax parent company) has a warehouse about 20 minutes from me here in Atlanta.

    So, in September, I motored over there, picked up another switch, the fourth or fifth (I lost count).

    Brought it back home, and over a period of all day, installed it, checking all along to be sure it would work. It did all along the way. Except when I finished the install, and once the switch was neatly in it's housing, w me feeling confident......it failed on the first trial. Disappointing.

    Now, this is a BS that I took great pains to research before buying.

    This is an international corporation. The problem w the equipment is known, fabled even.

    Each person who has one of these BS is known by SCM. Every time another switch is purchased (I would guess), SCM has it in their database.

    Has SCM ever contacted me? No.

    Every time I bought a switch, did anyone ever ask if I needed any help? No.

    In the beginning, I asked the SCM technical person about it, they did not offer any help other than to sell me a(nother) switch.

    I must say-abysmal customer service

    The only two people who have been significantly helpful have been Eric Loza (I think no longer w MiniMax), and a generous, kind gentleman-Charlie Plesums. Charlie has a whole page about this situation on his website.

    So, after considering the entire situation, and consulting an electrician (certified high and low voltage) friend of mine, I installed the 30 amp light switch you see below.


    Bandsaw new switch.JPG

    Nice, huh?

    Afterthoughts:

    1) It did occur to me that the problem might be one of the three microswitches could possibly be the cause of the malfunction. Sorry, not in the mood to second guess that one.
    2) The safety features have been taken out. Certainly, I had the ultimate safety feature much of the time-a nonfunctional machine
    3) I will probably install a throw switch on the wall as a safety on, and look into some type of easy off push type emergency on the machine.

    Is the above constructive?

    My point is-It is a great saw, with the exception of the switch. If you buy one-I cannot testify as to any customer service at all.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    McKean, PA
    Posts
    15,595
    Blog Entries
    1
    I'm not familiar with Minimax saws. Google seems to indicate that the MM16 is a 4.8 Hp machine and probably should be started with a contactor with the micro switches of the safety circuit preventing the contactor from being energized if the doors are open. Are they using micro switches for the motor power? If so what is the current rating of those switches?
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

    My advice, comments and suggestions are free, but it costs money to run the site. If you found something of value here please give a little something back by becoming a contributor! Please Contribute

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,739
    My switch gets funky on my Aggazani saw too. I was told by Jesse tech that he thinks it's a problem with carbon building up on some of the contacts. The solution was to take I off shake it and some lite tapping.
    So far so good.
    Aj

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    I'm not familiar with Minimax saws. Google seems to indicate that the MM16 is a 4.8 Hp machine and probably should be started with a contactor with the micro switches of the safety circuit preventing the contactor from being energized if the doors are open. Are they using micro switches for the motor power? If so what is the current rating of those switches?
    Lee, am not sure about the amperage of those switches.

    You are correct, I think about the theory of that particular safety feature.

    My shop is in our basement, we don't have children or any other folks coming in....so, although defeating the safety feature(s) is not ideal-now I can have my limited shop time w/o hassling w the MM switch.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    9,648
    Sorry to read your painful story, David. As you know, you aren't alone with this problem. Your solution looks to be just about the same as a friend of mine used to resolve the problem with his. I think he got tired of them breaking after the 3rd one failed.

    The failing switches is one reason I chose a different brand when I bought a new BS. I couldn't justify a premium price to buy into a known problem. Sadly, Minimax is not only annoying their current customers but also losing some new ones by not fixing a problem that has been going on with that saw for years.

    I hope this is the last of your troubles with your saw and that it serves you well for many years. When it comes time to buy a new woodworking machine, well ...

    John

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    9,885
    What is so special about that switch that it can not be replaced with a standard micro switch. Euro spec controls are built to a lower life time specification then the old school American controls.
    Bill D

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,688
    I've never had an issue with the AEG switch on my MM16 (the 3.6hp, 12" re-saw version), but I did have to replace the one on my MM FS350 J/P, early on. Unfortunately, the safety features on Euro type machines do make things a lot more complex. Your solution is certainly a valid remedy and I hope it works well for you. Erik and Charlie are great folks, too. I've known them both for many years...and even visited Charlie's home at one point while I was traveling on business.

    The current reach-out person for MinMax is Sam Blasco, BTW. Erik did indeed leave the business awhile back and is working in a different industry. He's also in Texas like Erik and Charlie.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    columbia, sc
    Posts
    808
    I just got my MM16 anve not even fired it up yet. Now I’m on the road for a week and can’t shoot any pictures but I remember looking and the switch that is on mine is a re flush button Eaton switch. Is this the same switch you had an issue with?
    Bob C

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,688
    Bob, older MM16 have AEG switches.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
    Posts
    9,885
    Around a bunch of sawdust seems like a reed switch would be a good idea. They are sealed so no dust can get in.
    Bill

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    What is so special about that switch that it can not be replaced with a standard micro switch. Euro spec controls are built to a lower life time specification then the old school American controls.
    Bill D
    Who knows? I have researched this issue over several years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I've never had an issue with the AEG switch on my MM16 (the 3.6hp, 12" re-saw version), but I did have to replace the one on my MM FS350 J/P, early on. Unfortunately, the safety features on Euro type machines do make things a lot more complex. Your solution is certainly a valid remedy and I hope it works well for you. Erik and Charlie are great folks, too. I've known them both for many years...and even visited Charlie's home at one point while I was traveling on business.

    The current reach-out person for MinMax is Sam Blasco, BTW. Erik did indeed leave the business awhile back and is working in a different industry. He's also in Texas like Erik and Charlie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cooper View Post
    I just got my MM16 anve not even fired it up yet. Now I’m on the road for a week and can’t shoot any pictures but I remember looking and the switch that is on mine is a re flush button Eaton switch. Is this the same switch you had an issue with?

    Bob: that's the one; don't be discouraged, a lot of folks (the majority?) have never had a problem

    It strikes me to take a picture of the pile of used parts I have from this 7 year debacle; in fact, I had also worn out one housing-I had taken out and put back the switch so many times.

    But-taking such a picture could malign the reputation of SCM/Minimax.....

    Would that be right? I guess not
    Would that be fair to SCM? I guess not

    Given all this time to think about why SCM/Minimax has never tried to help any of us-besides Eric, and then he was on his own w/o the weight of Corporate behind him; given that, I suppose the moral of the story is for the consumer to be careful about buying equipment primarily intended for Commercial users.

    Their equipment is primarily commercial, right?

    For me to ever buy from them again-there would have to be no other option.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix AZ Area
    Posts
    2,505
    So the switches fail after just a few uses? One would think there would be alternative brand switched that are made better. Crazy.

  13. #13
    Hi David and fellow Creekers. I'm out of the wood industry (plastics now), so don't log on very often but here is what I can add to this discussion. Regarding "bad switches" on the MM16's, this is the real story. Up til around 2007 or so, Centauro sourced out main switches from AEG. AEG is what had been used from the inception of the MM16 (2001 or so) and as you might imagine, that equaled probably a bizillion MM16's in service w/ US owners by 2007. Around that time, we (Minimax USA in Austin) started getting reports of main switches failing on practically new machines or on very young machines. We never experienced this before; it was (to the best of our knowledge) the exact same switch Centauro had always supplied, so why this all of a sudden? To make a long story short, AEG had apparently started going to China for this particular switch, unbeknownst to SCM, Centauro, or Minimax USA. So, we replaced any affected switches that were under warranty and offered customers who were out of warranty replacement switches at cost. I think it took us the better part of a year to work through the affected machines but I recall getting everyone taken care of either to their satisfaction or as best we could. After we worked through all of that, I can't seem to recall a single bad switch on the MM16's. Here are some things to keep in mind:

    -After "Switchgate", Centauro started sourcing out the really beefy Eaton switch that all the MM's come with now. I never personally had a customer report of a switch failure with the Eatons. Yes, the start switch is pretty stiff to actuate when new but I honestly can't ever recall one of them failing. Or at least that a customer ever told me about and that again was a bizillion more MM16's sold since the post-Switchgate era.

    -Not all the customers who had MM16's with AEG switches had problems. In fact, the majority did not. When I was still with SCM, I would talk to MM16 owners all the time who had early saws with AEG switches and never had issues. So, I feel pretty confident in saying that "if" there was going to be an issue with someone's switch, then they "would" have experienced it by now.

    -SCM still uses AEG switches (or at least did until I left in 2016) on pretty much the whole range of other Minimax machines and main switch failures were basically unheard of. So, AEG as a brand is still trustworthy in my opinion. I suspect that was just that particular switch, at that particular time, which obviously has long since passed and it's all Eaton switches now, anyhow.

    To guys who have MM's and switch isssues (regardless of generation), here are some preventative maintenance thoughts that might help (Disclaimer: I am not not representing SCM and am not a certified technician or electrician. You can electrocute yourself and die when working on machinery electrical systems. This is only what I have done. Perform at your own risk).

    -On switches I have pulled for inspection, there is always sawdust in there. Yes, there is a gasket and it's somewhat of a sealed compartment but sawdust manages to find its way in there. I have seen this cake and foul the coils, so make a point to blow out the switch and compartment with compressed air every so often. You know how nasty the nooks and crannies of the cabinet of the bandsaw get with that fine, powdery stuff after just a couple of projects. Imagine the switch and chamber after years of use with no maintenance.

    -When the switch is out, I would spray the coils and any other moving parts with CRC Plastic-safe Electrical Contact Cleaner. Part of the stiffness (more than one customer told me that their newer-gen MM16 wouldn't start and it actually was the case that they weren't pushing the start switch hard enough) of the Eaton switches is that here there seems to be a lacquer-like coating in the coils (I assume to prevent corrosion while in storage) that can make them really stiff to engage. A little contact cleaner really smoothed out the feel on the Eaton switches I worked on.

    -I understand that some owners just don't care for the overload protection-style switches that Centauro puts on these saws and more than one owner has asked why Centauro can't just put a "regular on-off" switch on the machines. It's a safety requirement for export from the EU but I know that a number of guys have (apparently like the OP) retrofitted more traditional switches to their machines. I don't personally have an opinion on this but again will say that if you do decide to go that route, please remember that it will void any warranty and have someone competent in electrical work perform it for you so that you don't electrocute yourself or ruin the machine.

    Lastly, regarding service and support from SCM Parts, it can be challenging unless you know specifically what the SCM part number is when you call and bandsaws are but one slice of the giant pie of SCM and Minimax Classical machines. I personally know most of the SCM parts staff and they are some of the most dedicated, hard-working folks I've ever met. If you need an AEG switch and want to skip SCM, a number of my customers found switches here...

    https://www.controllerservice.com/in...urersbyproduct

    This was a long-winded post but I hope it helps. In my experience, just a little routine maintenance toward the electrical systems on these machines went a long way. If anyone out there is considering a new MM bandsaw (or any other Minimax machine for that matter), please make sure to find Sam Blasco. He's the guy will steer you right. Best for 2018 to everyone here at the Creek.

    Erik

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    15,332
    Thanks for the mini-tome, Erik, and good to hear from you--always enjoyed your candor.

    FWIW, my early 2000s MM20 has an AEG switch and I've never had any problems with it and I've never ever removed it or blown it out. I'm just a hobbyist so it may not get the workout of a pro but generally speaking, my two MM machines (an FS41 Elite 16" jointer/planer combo, mid-2000s model being the second) have all be top-notch with zero problems.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,356
    Eric-you've always been great about this, and so many other issues.

    I believe that you believe that SCM has helped out all of us w MM16 switch issues.

    (Best of luck to you )

    However, I must state clearly for the record that:

    1) No one @ SCM has ever contacted me via phone, mail, or email about my purchasing any of the three different switches.
    2) Eaton was amongst the brands that failed.

    However, the happy ending (matching paint):

    Final MM16 Switch.JPG

    As I have said before:
    1) this was done in consultation w a certified high & low voltage electrician
    2) could the problem be is one of three microswitches? Tell that to the next guy.
    3) I realize that now I have a BS that is just as unsafe as all the other BS out there.

    It is a superb BS.....I did a lot of research before purchasing it (my second and final).
    Last edited by David Ragan; 01-06-2018 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Matching paint
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •