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Thread: Trying to select woodcarving tools... any help is appreciated!

  1. #1

    Trying to select woodcarving tools... any help is appreciated!

    Hi All,

    Just getting into carving and I'd like to eventually make something similar to the image below. I only add this image in because I've read though several other posts and it is apparent the tools to buy are largely dependent on the type of carving you want to do. Got it.

    I'd like to get into several areas of carving so I'm going to get the PFeil 7 tool set off Woodcraft but my specific question here is related to the finer detail work as you see in the image below. I know smaller tools will be necessary for this. I plan on getting a set of carving knives (set 1 & set 2) which are fairly inexpensive comparatively but I believe I'll need some small palm tools to create these details.

    I'd like to stick with the pfeil brand but my issue is that Woodcraft has 4 different sets of these "6-piece palm carving tool sets" - A, B, C, and D. I'm hoping I can get some advice on here as to which set(s) would be worthwhile getting knowing the type of carving I'd like to accomplish from the image below.

    Here are links to the 4 sets:
    A - https://www.woodcraft.com/products/p...702d31fb000995
    B - https://www.woodcraft.com/products/p...702d31fb000995
    C - https://www.woodcraft.com/products/p...702d31fb000995
    D - https://www.woodcraft.com/products/p...702d31fb000995

    They also have a 12 piece set: https://www.woodcraft.com/products/pfeil-swiss-made-palm-handled-carving-tool-set-12-piece?via=573621f469702d06760016cd%2C5763288b69702 d20ec000b2e%2C5763293f69702d31fb000995

    ...and an 8 piece set: https://www.woodcraft.com/products/p...702d31fb000995

    I know I have a lot to learn before I get here but this is what I'd like to work towards. Can someone suggest what might be best minimum to get or ideal for carving detail similar to this:

    carving.jpg

    Thank you all for your help!
    Last edited by Dan Moller; 12-12-2017 at 12:30 PM.

  2. #2
    B, c, d and the 12pc set are closest of those sets.

    I do mainly relief carving, and may not be the best or fastest out there, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

    I personally have an issue with the palm tools. For me they are uncomfortable to use, and don't give enough leverage to get clean cuts due to their short length.

    If it were me I'd buy a few narrow gouges and a small veiner, possibly a skew chisel.

    This set has slightly shorter blades but a full handle. It contains enough smaller gouges that the listed project should be within reach. (Maybe one more smallish gouge needed). It'll be more versatile in the long run, I think.
    https://www.woodcraft.com/products/p...l-set-12-piece
    Making furniture teaches us new ways to remove splinters.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Evans View Post
    B, c, d and the 12pc set are closest of those sets. I do mainly relief carving, and may... ... ...
    Matt,
    Thanks very much... that was really insightful advice. I never would have thought about it that way but I can definitely see what you mean. I can imagine having better control with the straight handles and more leverage. These and a set of carving knives for some small details might be a good start.
    Thank you for your time here, you helped me think of this in a different way.

  4. #4
    Dan,

    There are a few other options out there as well.

    If you are just starting to carve you may want to check out Wood Carver Supply. The hand forged and the Lamp Brand chisels and gouges are good. The Lamp brand is comparable to a Pfiel, the hand forged are good steel, but thinner. I really like the Lamp brand. I have a lot of the hand-forged as well though. If you want a shorter handle the hand forged are socket chisels, so you can make a small fat handle for one if you want a push style chisel for a few operations.

    Do you plan on doing furniture carving as well or mainly just the cane top that you showed? That may help as far as other folks suggestions. Also, are you learning on your own, from a book, another woodworker, taking classes, etc?
    Making furniture teaches us new ways to remove splinters.

  5. #5
    I mostly do relief carving for period furniture. I am from the European carving camp where two hands are on the tool, with your wrist on the work. Having said all this, I would think you would be better served going forward with full size gouges from Pfiel or other tool makers. The full size tools come in a wide range of sweeps and widths, shoot I have many 2 and 3mm full size gouges.

    If for some reason you want to sell a gouge for some reason, I believe the full size tools will be more appealing to a prospective buyer

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Many ways to get any given result. With a cane head you could probably get to (most of?) the details with knives. More traditional carving chisels have been discussed here before. One discussion I bookmarked was by Mark Yundt. (Pointer.)

    Also, Mary May has a List of Basic Tools posted.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Evans View Post
    Dan, There are a few other options out there as well. If you are just starting to carve you may want to check out Wood Carver Supply. The hand forged and the Lamp Brand chisels and gouges are good. The Lamp brand is comparable to a Pfiel, the hand forged are good steel, but thinner. I really like the Lamp brand. I have a lot of the hand-forged as well though. If you want a shorter handle the hand forged are socket chisels, so you can make a small fat handle for one if you want a push style chisel for a few operations. Do you plan on doing furniture carving as well or mainly just the cane top that you showed? That may help as far as other folks suggestions. Also, are you learning on your own, from a book, another woodworker, taking classes, etc?
    Hey Matt,

    Awesome, I wasn't aware of Wood Carver Supply... I'm going to check out the tools you mentioned right now. Funny you mentioned furniture carving because that's ultimately my initial goal is to reproduce a couple of old Norwegian chairs my grandma brought over on the boat. The chair has very similar carvings to the cane photo I posted. I'm 34 just to give some personal info... I've been building furniture for years as a hobby and built up a very nice collection of tools.

    I'm just coming to a time now where I have the motivation and patience to learn to carve. Resources aren't unlimited but it didn't take long to learn that it pays to spend money for quality tools that last rather than cheap ones that don't.

    Right now I'm learning on my own. I've started with videos (YouTube etc), forums, and other sites online. I'll probably grab a good book from B&N at some point too. With most things I learn I'll try to take in as much information as possible, learn proper safety, the right and the wrong way to do it. By the time I get the tools in hand I hope I'll have some confidence and tips for efficiency in mind, then just try to do something simple and see what the heck I've gotten myself into!

    You guys make it look easy... I know it's not going to be. I'm imagining the dimensional visualization being the hardest skill to refine.
    Last edited by Dan Moller; 12-14-2017 at 8:39 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert LaPlaca View Post
    I mostly do relief carving for period furniture. I am from the European carving camp where two hands are on the tool, with your wrist on the work. Having said all this, I would think you would be better served going forward with full size gouges from Pfiel or other tool makers. The full size tools come in a wide range of sweeps and widths, shoot I have many 2 and 3mm full size gouges.

    If for some reason you want to sell a gouge for some reason, I believe the full size tools will be more appealing to a prospective buyer
    Thanks Robert - I completely agree with you and Matt. I can definitely imagine enjoying using the longer handles over the palm tools. I've done enough work with smaller carpentry chisels that many times I wish they had longer handles so I really think I would pass the palm tools up for the larger handled tools more often than not.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bassett View Post
    Many ways to get any given result. With a cane head you could probably get to (most of?) the details with knives. More traditional carving chisels have been discussed here before. One discussion I bookmarked was by Mark Yundt. (Pointer.)

    Also, Mary May has a List of Basic Tools posted.
    I think that's a key point that it seems there's many ways to get from point A to B. Thanks so much for the links, really helpful! I'm respond here a couple pages into reading the Mark Yundt post and really looking forward to finishing it here.

    I think you're probably right about the knife detail the more I research. I think there will be a definite benefit to having a set of knives so I'm going to get them in addition to either the full sized or intermediate sized handled tools. I was also impressed by some work I saw of people doing geometric relief carving with knives so at worst it will be interesting practice.

    Thanks again for the links!

  10. #10
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    FWIW ... I'm also new to relief carving. I've played around with an inexpensive set of palm tools but recently took the plunge to a better grade of tools. I bought a beginner set recommended by Mary May. The set is made by Pfeil (Swiss Made). It includes 5 gouges (fishtail design) and 1 V tool. I purchased it from chippingaway.com. Price was $189 plus ~ $15 shipping.

  11. #11
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    I would strongly suggest staying away from palm gouges. I do mostly figure carving and walking sticks etc and use pretty much all pfeil, some D series some full size. All my go to gouges are 5 and 8 sweep from 3mm to 20mm and I use a few v tools as well. For the type of carving you showed I would buy a 5/8 and 8/10 and a 12/8 first. Then add smaller and larger as you see the need. 15/3 would be my next followed by a 5/3 and an 8/4.

    For knives I have many but after buying a harley knife from pinewood forge I have barely touched any of my others in the last 3-4 months.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon SPEAKS View Post
    I would strongly suggest staying away from palm gouges. I do mostly figure carving and walking sticks etc and use pretty much all pfeil, some D series some full size. All my go to gouges are 5 and 8 sweep from 3mm to 20mm and I use a few v tools as well. For the type of carving you showed I would buy a 5/8 and 8/10 and a 12/8 first. Then add smaller and larger as you see the need. 15/3 would be my next followed by a 5/3 and an 8/4.

    For knives I have many but after buying a harley knife from pinewood forge I have barely touched any of my others in the last 3-4 months.
    After thinking about my previous post I wanted to add on a few things. First I am far from an expert. I have done probably around 100 or so figures, and another 50 or so wood spirits, along with probably nearly as many failed attempts on both. So take my advice with a grain of salt. Your picture seemed like the type of carving I like to do though so some of this may be useful.

    In general though after buying a few sets and then some individual tools my advice is to stay away from sets. They are a good value only if you will use everything in them which you likely will not. I would advise buying a few tools that look like they will best suit your immediate carving objectives and then buy specific tools as you need them or see a limitation in your set. At first you likely will not know what you really need. Learning what your initial tools do and how they work will help you select the next ones.

    I started out with few sets of flexcut palm gouges which are now essentially retired but did give me a sense of what sweeps and sizes I would need in full size gouges. For carvings in 2x2 stock of varying lengths I found that a 5/8 8/10 and 12/8 vtool paired with a good knife were most versatile. I then added an 8/20 for a wolf carving I was doing to facilitate faster stock removal, that one ended up being a bad investment for me right now and does not get much use, although I will hold onto it for when I move on to larger carvings. I also added a 15/3 vtool which is likely my most used gouge today (partly because it gets used in many wittling projects where I only use this and a knife).

    I used those tools almost exclusively for awhile to get a real feel for their capabilities and short comings. What I found as the carvings I was working on got smaller was that I had detail areas that were problematic for those gouges where I resorted to the knife but still struggled so I added an 8/4 and a 5/3. I may have been better served by an 8/6 and a 5/5 but I bought the closest thing to what I was targeting that woodcraft had in stock locally. These tools were helpful in doing faces in smaller 1x1 or 1.5x1.5 stock.

    My next purchase will likely be a 3/8 and a 3/4 to help in smoothing surfaces. If Christmas yields woodcraft gift cards I may add a few larger width full size gouges. I have a 12x5x8 piece of wood that feels like it wants to become a wolf or a bear where those larger tools would be helpful. I have not thought through exactly what those tools will be yet but my initial guess is something like a 8/15, and a 5/12, I dont think a larger 3 will be needed since they are meant to be covered in fur and not super smooth.

  13. #13
    Hi All!

    Thank you very much for all of the insightful tips. I figured I'd let you guys know how I made out and what worked and what didn't. Maybe this will help others as well at some point.

    I ended up buying some different shaped carving knives and a pfeil 7-tool intermediate sized carving tool set. The set has pretty much everything I needed to get started, I think. I've been practicing with some relief carving and just getting a feel for what works and what doesn't as well as how different types of materials feel.

    I complete agree with you, Brandon, in that you have no idea what you need until you actually start using the tools. That's why I started with the basic sets I did. I now 'get it' in that I can really make any tool work for me but when I find one of my tools fits perfectly to what I'm trying to carve it makes life so much easier. My real issue was that what you see online looks completely different from what you get. Not in the shape of the tool but just the actual size. Now that I have some in hand I can better estimate what I need.

    So, on to the carving...

    Soft pine is obviously the easiest and carved a little flower. Came out pretty good and looks like a 10 year old did it. Is this normal for the first try?

    Harder woods are definitely more difficult to carve. I tried oak and mahogany just to give it a shot. I can see it being extremely frustrating to carve that material. Does anyone do this? Would you ever want to do this?

    I've now moved on to a relief carving of a wheat strand. Lots of little details and sweeps. The size is about 5x10" and I'm finding I'm using the small 4mm #7 gouge often to remove material carefully and some carving knives to work around my lines. It's coming out o.k. I think. It's taking shape but I'm a little unsure of how to 'finish-off' the piece. I'm getting a good recess in the areas I want to remove and it looks fairly clean but I'm eventually going to have to shape the 'flat' portions that I didn't carve and also smooth out some of the areas that didn't carve cleanly.

    I definitely have more research to do but I find it amazing how good carvers on youtube are able to move #1 so quickly and #2 be so precise with where they make their cuts...especially those that do patterns that come out so perfectly.

    I've only done these two carvings and some practicing so I know it will come with time but honestly, overall I find it to be super relaxing and calming. That's probably my favorite part so far. My wife even came in and got involved in playing with the tools too...almost therapeutic .

    My thoughts up to this point for anyone starting would be to #1 determine the type of carving you would eventually like to do and then #2 find a wood working store that actually has their carving tools out for you to hold and inspect. Find what feels best in your hand and what sizes look like they'll work for you. If you can't do that (I don't have any good woodworking supply stores nearby either), I'd get some sets like I did...I'm very happy with what I purchased and feel I didn't waste my money. If I had gone and bought palm tools, I know I would have been disappointed with them. I even feel like the intermediate sized pfeil tools just fit my hands...I might even like the full sized ones but I'll take a trip out to a Woodcraft or other supply store in conjunction with a trip somewhere to make sure.

    Nothing beats actually holding the tools in your hands and trying them out!

    Thank you all!
    Dan
    Last edited by Dan Moller; 01-31-2018 at 12:00 PM.

  14. #14
    Congrats! And yes, that is perfectly normal. I am not a "carver," but I enjoy carving. My stuff still looks like it was hacked out with a butter knife after many years of trying. But< i'll keep trying as I do enjoy the hacking- frustration and all! Santa brought me a freshly inked copy Mary May's new book on acanthus leaf carving. She does a great job of breaking things down in to manageable steps. I just finished acanthus leaf 101 and it is pretty rough, but... One thing that I have learned in all my years of attacking helpless wood is that SHARP is a wonderful thing and makes a HUGE difference! Now and then, I find my carving is looking pretty bad and I'm frustrated with it and then it hits me that maybe my tool is dull. Anyway, good luck with it. I'm practicing in bass wood. It is a dream to carve. It might be too forgiving though!

    Tony

  15. #15
    I would think about how you intend to hold your work and would lean toward a way of carving wherein the carving is fixed by clamps or similar and you are not holding with one hand and carving with the other. You will not have good control. Also consider full size tools rather than palm, again more control and more power with control. You can hold them with two hands for very controlled work or like a pencil for for some small detail. Just because they are often referred to as "mallet" tools doesn't mean you need to use a mallet on them. Full size would be the way to go for carving larger things such as furntiture, so if that is an end goal, buy the correct tools up front.

    Actually a lot of folks think mallets are only for wacking off large chunks of wood. Mallets can be used to make much more precise cuts than by hand with light tapping.

    Good luck with Lamp - hope you get a good one and if you don't that they'll swap it out. I've had issues in that regard. Any company can have a bad tool slip through, but I've not had trouble returning any of the others I've had from Pfeil, Stubai, Henry Taylor, Dastra or Hirsch.

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