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Thread: Bitcoin?

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    Absolutely! I would prefer a cashless society in which the government has access to every financial transaction I make. That appears to be the direction in which we are headed.
    If you sincerely mean that, I'd say you would be happier living in China!

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    Interesting that the state of Ohio will now accept Bitcoin as payment on taxes. Now that doesnt mesh with only being useful for criminal endeavors, or does it?
    Great for those looking for unnecessarily high transaction fees, but otherwise what is wrong with a check? Afraid the government will find out you paid your taxes?

    Just because it can be used doesn't make it useful. Black and Decker sanders can be used, but that doesn't mean they are useful. (ever tried?)

    Besides:
    "Mandel also told the publication that he is “confident that this cryptocurrency initiative will continue” after his term ends this January. As an elected state official, Mandel told journalists that he is able to decide that his office will accept the digital currency “without approval from the legislature or governor,” the WSJ reports."

    He was just playing a prank; his successor will certain reverse it, and no taxes will ever be paid in bitcoins.
    Last edited by Wade Lippman; 11-26-2018 at 8:24 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    ...He was just playing a prank; his successor will certain reverse it, and no taxes will ever be paid in bitcoins.
    I think the facts in this case speak otherwise. None the less, it seems inevitable that Bitcoin or an alternative crypto currency will take hold whether you care to participate or not. In many ways, the modern dollar is nothing more than a well accepted crypto currency. For example, your paycheck gets electronically deposited in your bank, you auto pay bills or charge things on Visa, PayPal, etc. No one really has to see a real dollar much at all. We are becoming a cashless society and we will all be better for it when it happens.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    Now it is $3,800.

    If I seem a bit obsessed over this... the only real use for a bitcoin is illegal transactions; buying drugs or getting ransom payments. It ought to be illegal and everyone who "invests" in it ought to lose their money. I am delighted that it seems to be going that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    Great for those looking for unnecessarily high transaction fees, but otherwise what is wrong with a check?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I think the facts in this case speak otherwise. None the less, it seems inevitable that Bitcoin or an alternative crypto currency will take hold whether you care to participate or not. In many ways, the modern dollar is nothing more than a well accepted crypto currency. For example, your paycheck gets electronically deposited in your bank, you auto pay bills or charge things on Visa, PayPal, etc. No one really has to see a real dollar much at all. We are becoming a cashless society and we will all be better for it when it happens.
    Indeed Bitcoin itself, as one brand of cryptocurrency may not stand the test of time, but it seems fairly accepted by lots of smart people that the blockchain technology behind it is here to stay. It might be worth Wade's time to read the Wikipedia entry for Blockchain. Specifically:

    A blockchain is a
    decentralized, distributed and public digital ledger that is used to record transactions across many computers so that any involved record cannot be altered retroactively, without the alteration of all subsequent blocks.[1][19] This allows the participants to verify and audit transactions independently and relatively inexpensively.[20] A blockchain database is managed autonomously using a peer-to-peer network and a distributed timestamping server. They are authenticated by mass collaboration powered by collectiveself-interests.[21] Such a design facilitates robustworkflow where participants' uncertainty regarding data security is marginal. The use of a blockchain removes the characteristic of infinite reproducibility from a digital asset. It confirms that each unit of value was transferred only once, solving the long-standing problem of double spending. A blockchain has been described as a value-exchange protocol.[14] This blockchain-based exchange of value can be completed quicker, safer and cheaper than with traditional systems.[22] A blockchain can maintain title rights because, when properly set up to detail the exchange agreement, it provides a record that compels offer and acceptance.

    Just the immediacy of the back office settlement and the authentication properties are major assets. No possibility of double spending or bounced checks. For these reasons it is my understanding that the likes of Bank of America, J.P. Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs have made big investments in the area so as not to be left behind if and when digital currency exchange of this nature becomes mainstream.

    There are quite a few people holding on to the bias that blockchain is expressly reserved for criminals and illicit transactions, but in fact, all of us would benefit from the logistical advantages that blockchain offers. It just may be that some future incarnation other than Bitcoin may be the form it needs to take.
    Perhaps governments and/or central banks will collaborate on a format.

    Unfortunately, there seems to be more bad information than good information in the mainstream regarding these technologies. Furthermore, until it becomes common, new media of currency is a difficult concept to grasp for those of us old enough to be accustomed to the traditional ways for decades. I happen to think the term "cryptocurrency" doesn't help matters because it connotes something dark and illicit as a first reaction for many people.

    Also, it's important to separate the idea of currency as a medium of exchange from currency as a speculative investment (let alone a volatile speculative investment). The successful model of digital currency will need to be adopted more for the former reasons than the latter in order for it to be a durable solution.

    Either way it won't be long before writing a check to pay your taxes or anything else will not be acceptable simply because it takes too long for the transaction to clear and costs too much to process it. That's my prediction at least.

    If someone disagrees with this reasoning and believes the status quo is here to stay, please make your case as to why.

    Edwin

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    It might be worth Wade's time to read the Wikipedia entry for Blockchain.


    I don't need to read a puff piece on blockchain. A few years ago there was much investigation into it as perhaps then next great thing in data management, but it has largely been abandoned because the overhead is punitive.


    A blockchain can maintain title rights because, when properly set up to detail the exchange agreement, it provides a record that compels offer and acceptance.
    Sure, you can structure a blockchain in many different ways. Bitcoin went for complete anonymity. Again, traditional methods are better in every instance that isn't illegal.

    There might be a good use for blockchains in the future, but Bitcoins will never be good for anything that is legal. (I am making the assumption that you wouldn't need to hide anything legal from the government; I know I wouldn't)

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    I don't need to read a puff piece on blockchain. A few years ago there was much investigation into it as perhaps then next great thing in data management, but it has largely been abandoned because the overhead is punitive.




    Sure, you can structure a blockchain in many different ways. Bitcoin went for complete anonymity. Again, traditional methods are better in every instance that isn't illegal.

    There might be a good use for blockchains in the future, but Bitcoins will never be good for anything that is legal. (I am making the assumption that you wouldn't need to hide anything legal from the government; I know I wouldn't)
    IBM is hugely invested in blockchain. I suspect they know what they are doing.

  7. #97
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    On the other hand, if you thought I was being sarcastic, you would be correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    If you sincerely mean that, I'd say you would be happier living in China!

  8. #98
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    When we are a cashless society, then the government will have the ability to track every financial decision we make. Whatever political party is in power will almost certainly do so if it fits their needs. I would prefer to keep my political contributions and benevolence private.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    We are becoming a cashless society and we will all be better for it when it happens.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    IBM is hugely invested in blockchain. I suspect they know what they are doing.
    All I can find is 30years of data, but IBM's revenue is 10% lower than it was in 1988; adjusted for inflation it is 65% lower. What makes you suspect they know what they are doing?

  10. #100
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    If anyone is interested, it hung around $3,000 for a while but is now $7,500. Go figure.
    Bye guys.

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