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Thread: List of replacement impellers for HF dust collector?

  1. #31
    Ugh, wow! Well, your experience in the NE pretty much matches mine. That’s a lot of dough for metal. 24 ga sounds a lot heavier than traditional heating ductwork, what was it like to work with?

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Kona View Post
    With that small of a blower, just use the big box 5" hvac duct. There will be NO issue of collapse.
    Thanks Carl, great info. I hadn’t even thought about collapse with 30 ga ducting, good to keep in mind. I do want to do the Rikon impeller, so will play it on the safe side, at least with reinforcements. And maybe some Kevlar gloves, given my history with that stuff. 🙂

    These wyes should come in-crimped allowing you crimp the correct end for Dust collector flow (worth verify that is still the case before you order)
    Another good call given that it seems like no one’s hoses or fittings of a nominal dimension ever want to fit to anyone else’s, and neither blue nor orange stores have much in the way of 5” fittings.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Matsumoto View Post
    Ugh, wow! Well, your experience in the NE pretty much matches mine. That’s a lot of dough for metal. 24 ga sounds a lot heavier than traditional heating ductwork, what was it like to work with?
    Definitely was on the high side re: cost. It coincided with an unexpected windfall at the same time I was planning this, so it worked out (and paid for a canister filter, too).

    Working with the ducting was difficult, as I'd never done it before. Had to get some tools (crimper, proper snips, and many band-aids), but once I figured that part out it was mainly simple. Getting the snap lock to close was the most frustrating part, but once I figured out a 2 hose clamp method it went far better. It's a lot heavier than the 30ga, but with temp supports (one man shop here, so no one to hold things up) using pipe strapping, it went quickly.

  4. #34

    5" duct

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Petersen View Post
    ... and many band-aids


    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Petersen View Post
    ...once I figured out a 2 hose clamp method it went far better.
    Got a link to that method, maybe save me some band-aids? Or is at as simple as hose clamping partway in from both ends to get the pipe to close up enough to engage when released?

    Oneida's Gorilla clamp duct system looks pretty great, but wow, $45 for an elbow, I think I'll save the money for tools instead.

  5. #35
    Here was my post on it, but there are several ways within that thread.
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....50#post2747450

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SF Baaaah Area
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    39
    Here in the SF Bay Area, I have a nearby commercial HVAC supply house that is able to order pretty much anything one may need -- let there be no mystery, these DC manufacturers are not creating their own specialized pipes and fittings, they are utilizing existing materials or customizing them, so we can do the same while cutting out the middlemen.

    I wouldn't trifle with 30ga., but simply order up 24ga, which isn't too expensive. At some point, ordering 5" spiral pipe might be feasible.

    Lastly, you can use adapters to overcome the 5" sizing issue. For example, the 5" inlet to the impeller is what limits the cfm, not the 6" pipe, so just run 6" if that's all you can find at a reasonable cost and reduce it with a commonly available 6"-5" reducer at the impeller. Another alternative, if you have only a short main, would be to convert the impeller inlet and outlet to a 1" larger diameter (the outlet must be 1" larger than the inlet).

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Birmingham, MI
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    I have to take exception to Bradley's comment about upsizing your duct to 6" from a 5" port. Although it seems innocent enough to increase the duct by 1", but your duct area is increasing almost 50% (~19 sq. in. to ~28 sq. in.) So the issue is the velocity drops in the bigger duct. I just ran an 8' run of 6" duct from the 6" outlet of a 1.5HP cyclone with a 12.5" impeller and my velocity was too low for duct collection (~2700 FPM) even though my CFMs were about 530. When you drop the velocity you can't maintain suspension of the debris in the duct and you get clogs. By simply reducing the duct to 5" diameter I increased velocity to over 3300 FPM with a drop in CFM to 490. With any dust collection system you want at least 3000-3500FPM velocity to maintain debris suspension (some even want >4000). That is why you never see ANY air system (Dust collection, vacuum or HVAC) increase duct size down the line.

    Most any blower, dust collector, cyclone with an impeller under 13" probably can't properly operate with 6" ducting, they would perform best with 5". Although many people run 4" due to cost and convenience, you strangle away too much performance. Will a 6" or 4" create suction? Sure. They will tell you it "feels great", "can't believe the suction" etc. but they did not accurately measure the performance. I did and my short run of 4" showed over a 30% drop from 5" so I didn't bother doing any more testing with that setup. Even the manufactures realize that 6" is too big for smaller blowers. Grizzly includes a 6"-5" reducer with their 1.5HP cyclones. Why even have a 6" port to begin with? Because they can advertised a bigger CFM number using a larger port.

    Hope that helps.

    Carl

    BTW All measurements were based on testing with a Pitot tube

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Kona View Post
    ... I just ran an 8' run of 6" duct from the 6" outlet of a 1.5HP cyclone with a 12.5" impeller and my velocity was too low for duct collection (~2700 FPM) even though my CFMs were about 530. When you drop the velocity you can't maintain suspension of the debris in the duct and you get clogs...
    You were getting clogs at 2700FPM? What kind of material were you trying to move?

    I use 6" flex and PVC to connect to my table saw and get about 400CFM which is about 2000FPM in the 6". I have not had a problem with clogs.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Birmingham, MI
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    148
    David,

    Good to know you can maintain such a low velocity on a TS without issue. I have not had clogs on my current setup and did not want to deal with any either. I changed my duct size after my testing using clean new filters, which would have been my best case scenario. My concern at 2700 FPM was based on all the duct/material flow design guidelines I have ever come across regarding wood chips. Everything I have seen from duct manufacturers, dust collector manufactures (both retail and industrial) and wood working journals all use a
    minimum
    velocity for wood chips at 3500 FPM in designing ductwork branches. Since my best was only 2700 I didn't want to chance it. I am still not to my target, but this is temporary. If it was only my TS connected to this line I would not have been as concerned, but my jointer and planer make the bigger clogging chips. The only clog I ever had was with my planer and my old Jet 1100 using a 4" flex. Don't know how caked the bag was or how little flow I was getting at that time as I didn't pay attention to those things at that time.
    Hope this helps. Let Us know what you do.

    Carl

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Schreib View Post
    I just did a google search and a guy on the Thien forum says that the Grizzly 12 3/4 by 3 1/2 impeller # P1028Z2010 works.

    On another forum a guy says that his cfm at the end of a 41 ft run went from 325 cfm to 640cfm. He was exhausting outside so no filter to add resistance.

    Good luck

    This method doesn't work. I purchased this exact impeller, (Grizzly # P1028Z2010) and it does not fit inside the housing. It is both longer in circumference and wider in thickness. Would need a whole new housing to adapt. Grizzly was kind enough to give me a refund but I had to pay return shipping and a 10% restocking fee which was only fair.

  11. #41
    [3403-022] Turbo Fan for WEN 3403 × 1 does indeed fit the Harbor Freight DC shaft, perfectly, and does fit inside the shroud. Also, no issues on startup, did not notice any increase startup or running amp draw, despite the WEN impeller being considerably bigger and heavier by at least 3X. Also want to point out that getting the stock impeller off was a b*****, as the flange promptly snapped off when using a 3 jaw puller. And make sure you use a tip saver with your puller, or else you'll trash the threads for the locking screw, and need a M6 reverse thread plug tap to redo the threads, also a b****. In the end, in terms of time, almost not worth it, but for a 35$ part added to a 150$ dust collector, I'm pretty impressed with the results, and if it flies apart after a couple of months of use, still got my money's worth out of something that has run 4 years longer than the 2 I expected it to last.

  12. #42

    getting that impeller off

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Colson View Post
    [3403-022] Turbo Fan for WEN 3403 × 1 does indeed fit the Harbor Freight DC shaft, perfectly, and does fit inside the shroud. Also, no issues on startup, did not notice any increase startup or running amp draw, despite the WEN impeller being considerably bigger and heavier by at least 3X. Also want to point out that getting the stock impeller off was a b*****, as the flange promptly snapped off when using a 3 jaw puller. And make sure you use a tip saver with your puller, or else you'll trash the threads for the locking screw, and need a M6 reverse thread plug tap to redo the threads, also a b****. In the end, in terms of time, almost not worth it, but for a 35$ part added to a 150$ dust collector, I'm pretty impressed with the results, and if it flies apart after a couple of months of use, still got my money's worth out of something that has run 4 years longer than the 2 I expected it to last.
    I literally attempted the same upgrade, and promptly ripped the impeller flange off with the puller. i was po'd, considered it a fail, and then sold my rikon impeller. this was in may- now im thinking of redoing it since im upgrading my entire shop, and now the rikon is out of stock, as is the Wen.

    anyway- in anticipation of the Wen becoming available soon, how did you get the HF impeller off? i considered cutting it off with a dremel or grinder.

    thanks for any info

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    League City, Texas
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    1,643
    I went with the Wen 3403-22 turbofan (impeller). I am honestly a bit shocked to see 2 people here that managed to break the OE impeller flange, but Murphy is a real SOB sometimes...

    My swap went smooth as glass. unplug the DC, unscrew the flange, take the retaining bolt off counter thread. Set up 3 jaw puller and insure the jaw hooks are SOLIDLY under the lip of the impeller flange. and slowly, and smoothly screw the center screw in until the OE impeller came loose, remove OE impeller from housing.

    Next line up retaining key / keyway so that it is pointing straight up to allow me to orient the new impeller easily.

    Using a Q tip, apply air tool oil to the inner surface of the new impeller shaft way / keyway.

    Line up the new impeller and start the keyway / shaft. until the new impeller starts onto the retaining key and shaft.

    Using a mallet and hunk of 2x4 to protect the impeller flange and drive the new impeller home until fully seated.

    Reinstall retaining bolt / washer, counterthreaded of course.

    Reinstall flange.

    Plug DC back in.

    Test.

    Forget I had a blast gate open, and a small drill bit next to the dust pickup on my drill press

    Listen to the drill bit bounce to the separator.

    Yep suction / airflow massively improved.
    Trying to follow the example of the master...

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