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Thread: Moxon vise design "review"?

  1. #16
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    I would question the desirability of the level surface behind the back jaw of the vise. Many years ago I built a "bench on bench" that had such a surface with dog holes, and a vise on the front. I did not find the surface useful. A few years ago I made a Moxon type vise without that back surface, and it gets a lot more use.

    A block of wood, or a plane on its side, placed on your bench behind the Moxon will support your work, without causing problems of interference, manipulation, or storage of the vise. Note that Derek's is lacking the back surface.

  2. #17
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    In response to Alan's comments about the bench-on-bench design for a Moxon vise, I will next week be building such a design with British woodworker Derek Jones (Marc Adams School). Derek points out that having the area behind the vise's rear jaw allows the secure clamping of boards to transfer dovetail profiles to mating boards. Yes, it does make a larger assembly to store, but the idea is to have versatile and secure work holding at a height that is ideal for sawing; particularly dovetails. Derek Jones' design is larger than my instincts would have made it. I'm relying on his experience.
    Last edited by Mike Brady; 07-14-2019 at 10:14 AM.

  3. #18
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    There is a small ledge at the rear of my Moxon, not a table ...



    This is wide enough to attach a clamp.

    It folds away when not needed ...



    I made a slight mod to this moxon by cutting back the fold over rest slightly. It is important to be able to check the rear join as well as the front position of the tails on the pin board ...



    The built-in square is also a waste of time for me. Many of the drawers I dovetail are compound angles, such as the bow fronts I am making at present. A square is not useful. All that is needed is a square like this ....



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  4. #19
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    Derek, I see a portable support behind your Moxon vise. A table eliminates that extra appliance plus gives you dog holes to employ, in my case, the Veritas Hold-down to secure hold the tail board while marking (the blue tape).

    I'm interested in your opinion about the security of holdfasts bearing on the "horns" of the rear chop. They appear to be adequate to prevent vise movement in your set up, but many Moxon users employ F-clamps there.

    I'm using ash and Benchcrafted screws so this piece will be a load.....

  5. #20
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    Hey Bram - nice job on the fusion drawing. I may have to try it - the explode view is cool.

    I'm in the beta stage of a moxon. Need to finish several other projects then it's moxon time.Mine is going to be higher than most - probably 10" or so - the extra height is more comfortable for me. And I'll have a surface behind with T tracks for hold downs. I have the advantage of being able to mount it semi permanently so if it's a bit hefty that's ok. My first go round had a 2" piece of oak for the chop, but I changed it to 1". I can set the left side to the thickness of the board and tighten or loosen the right screw to remove the board or lock it in place. And the 1" actually bows around the piece a bit when tightened and without leather or anything but the oak I have not had a board move on me in the 6 months I've been playing with it. And the chop is an 1/8" lower than the table, so I can use a square to line up the board before clamping it down. The back jaw of the vise (the back chop??) overhangs the bench to make it easier to get pieces in and out. I'm no expert - just started playing around with it. And it is certainly no piece of furniture yet. Might be soon - but it's pretty rough at the moment.
    20190107_185825.jpg20190309_192213.jpg

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brady View Post
    Derek, I see a portable support behind your Moxon vise. A table eliminates that extra appliance plus gives you dog holes to employ, in my case, the Veritas Hold-down to secure hold the tail board while marking (the blue tape).

    I'm interested in your opinion about the security of holdfasts bearing on the "horns" of the rear chop. They appear to be adequate to prevent vise movement in your set up, but many Moxon users employ F-clamps there.

    I'm using ash and Benchcrafted screws so this piece will be a load.....
    Mike, I have long recommended against using a table behind and attached to the Moxon vise. It adds the appearance of assistance, but in reality complicates matters.

    I do not know how many dovetails you have marked and cut. This is not intended as a put down. I really do not know your experience here. I can only explain mine, and why I say what I say.

    Lets take just one aspect of the table: It fixes the height behind the vise. Let me borrow Bill's set up for a moment ...




    Imagine that board is the tail board and the pin board is below it for transfer of the tail marks. What is likely to happen is that the knife being used will slide across the edge of the pin board and begin to cut up the chop.

    The backing to the chop in my Moxon lifts the tail board high enough that this does no occur (the flip over section is a spacer, and the "I-beam" at the rear is made at a sympathetic height). Even so, there are still some knife marks on the chop ...




    The recent photo of the modified Moxon does the same, but just extends the spacer into a wider surface so that wide boards (such as for a case) may also be clamped ...




    Secondly, a continuous corner behind the chop is not a good idea because it limits the visibility for joining boards. Some boards need to join from the end of the tails, and some from their baseline. Not all dovetails are the same.

    Hence I cut back the rest at the edge ...



    Look at this layout ....




    ... that became ... a bowed drawer front ...




    I am building other drawers at the present, and the sides are angled to fit into a curved front. They cannot lie flat. The rear has to be raised up ...



    This is how much out-of-square they are ...




    Some insights from my experience.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  7. #22
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    Hi Derek - with all the respect in the world, I gotta disagree. The chop is a piece of wood - so what if it gets marked up - replace it. And it just seems more efficient to have the table - no hunting for the I-beam, flipping up the stop, moving everything out of the way, hunting for the clamps, etc. Frankly, after our last posts about moxons I seriously considered your version because its so elegant and the form is very nice. A really good looking jig. But for me it's not very efficient, and not a very elegant solution to the problem of holding the wood for marking and then holding it for cutting. And I wanted to give Bram another take on moxons for his consideration. More info is always better than less info, IMHO.

    BTW I used the moxon this weekend for my version of the 6 minute blind dovetails (my first try at them). But I ran out of film at the 1.5 hour mark.

    Regards from Morocco

  8. #23
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    Bill, as I mentioned, this is my experience. Everyone has a different need. I respect that you may use the Moxon differently to me.

    I plan to build a new Moxon (with steel screws and wheels) when my current built is done. I recognise that I do a lot of angled dovetails. Therefore a table at the rear is not for me. I want to keep this one as simple as possible.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  9. #24
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    I will share a few of these suggestions with Derek Jones, editor of Furniture and Cabinet Making magazine in the UK, while I am with him this weekend. It will be interesting to get his take on dovetailing technique, as all of the students in the workshop will be comparing his methodology with their own. His Moxon design features dovetails throughout.

  10. #25

  11. #26
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    There was a fellow a while back....that used the bar and the weight clamps to build a Moxxon vise.....one clamp was "fixed" to the back of the back jaw....the other moved the moving chop. Trying to remember where he posted it.....basically, he walked into Walmart, walked out with the parts, and built....

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    There was a fellow a while back....that used the bar and the weight clamps to build a Moxxon vise.....one clamp was "fixed" to the back of the back jaw....the other moved the moving chop. Trying to remember where he posted it.....basically, he walked into Walmart, walked out with the parts, and built....
    Kudos on adding the practicality side to things, Bandit!
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  13. #28
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    I am in the process of quite a lot of dovetailing of drawers. This has given me the opportunity to test out the current design. All can say, if you plan to copy it, is don’t! The side fence and the larger flip over do not work as well as the previous design. I shall be rebuilding my Moxon back to that design. KIS.

    Keep in mind that I have been building a lot of curved drawers over the past few years. Side fences do not work for these. My little wooden square (shown in one of the photos) is terrific. I shall have to show how it works, because it does so in ways that are not immediately obvious. I am even more adamant that a rear table is silly and is the type of addition that only an inexperienced dovetailer will include. Sorry if this appears condescending and self-righteous. Even the trimmed-back ledge I added (above) is an unnecessary intrusion.

    Keep it simple. I’m going back to Mk ll.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  14. #29
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    Tom Bussey, that's a slick solution.

  15. #30
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    I just finished a Moxon vise with an attached work table, as seen in the photo in my prior post. I used the excellent Benchcrafted hardware made for Moxon vises. There is a factor in choosing vise hardware that bears upon your design. If you choose to not have structure other than the front and rear jaws, then wood screws would be advisable, as in Derek's vise. If you opt for metal vise hardware such as Benchcrafted, using that same design, the result will be a much heavier vise with a center of gravity that will be well in front of the edge of the workbench to which your Moxon is attached. This presents the possibility that the entire assembly could fall from the benchtop when loosening the clamps or hold-fasts and impact your lower body and/or the floor. If you include a table in your Moxon design, as I did, the weight of the vise hardware is balanced by the mass of the wood parts.

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