Weinig 22n

[Michael Larson]

I just make my 12 year old do it, or my wife.

Someone's gotta do the work while you unload Smittys machines for him.

[Darcy Warner]

Someone's gotta do the work while you unload Smittys machines for him.

I have bigger fish to fry than his.

[Joe Calhoon]

I saw one of those tables in operation once and it looked like a mess with the first edge rips and keepers both falling one way. I feed two at a time when I'm in a hurry and one at a time normally. The moulder has a similar table, but wider. Since we are using 4/4 material almost exclusively, the table is low enough to fit a stack of five before you need to walk down to slide that stack over and/or pile it on top of another. The scale of our jobs lets us run the entire job onto the outfeed table and the precision crosscut saw is right there. Rails and stiles go onto a flat cart to move the 20 feet to the cope/stick shaper, and panel staves flow down the table to the RF gluer.

Joe, since the Martin can do random width, do you rip for absolute max yield or cut on increments for panel staves (or do you glue right off the saw)?

JR,
I never saw one of those upside down V tables in use, just tried to copy a picture of one. Maybe they work if ripping the same width all the time. We normally rip smaller batches most of the time. I think I will figure a way to stash the roller table when not ripping with a helper.

We can do random width boards for edge glued panels on the T 90 without ripping (with rough edges) up to about 3 to 4' long. It straightens crooked edges but if the board is different width from end to end more than a 1/4" it doesn't work very well. Longer panels for interior doors we usually straighten and rip parallel on the SLR. Critical glue ups for exterior panels, table tops and the such I like to do a spring joint on the jointer. We have glued up off the SLR for door and window cores. Its OK but I can see the joint. I could probably try a better blade but happy with the process now. As per the discussion on Woodweb the better SLRs will get a decent glue joint.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe,

I just picked up a lift table for the out feed of my slr and moulder bc I got so tired of walking around, I hope it works like I think it will. I am curious about your dc setup, I can't tell exactly how your returning the air. My set up is similar to yours but bc I don't have high ceiling everyone has said it's nearly impossible to pump it outside. I would love some details bc I am emptying 4 barrels for every hour of run time.

Thanks,

Michael

Michael,
The low ceiling does present a problem with a Rotary air lock and transfer fan. Years ago we were ready for a bigger DC than the Murphy bag house we were using and wanted to move it inside as a subdivision grew up around my shop. We only have 12' ceilings and Belfab had the only unit that fit in that space. They use a different system than a RAL. The bottom of the collector is V shaped with a transfer fan at each end. This allows everything to sit low.

If you look at the picture the 6" vertical pipe goes to the trailer. You cannot see the 6" return on the back end of the collector. Hanging and disconnected is the pipe used to go to the briquetter.

IMG_3376.jpg

[Martin Wasner]

Joe, did you have trouble with the Murphy Rodgers baghouse clogging socks? We've got a 20hp unit sitting outside and it's been enough of a problem that I'm kicking around putting a cyclone in front of it. The air to cloth ratio is whacked on mine. The super fine stuff isn't an issue, the shaker does a good job dropping it in the hopper, but the big fluffy chips like off of the panel raiser are pretty much guaranteed to not lay down, and they get stuck in the bags.

To be fair, we're just dropping in the hopper at the moment, then opening a gate to drop into a drum a couple of times a day, which I'm sure allowing the chips to sit in there is contributing to the problem. I've got an airlock that needs to be rebuilt and installed. My long term plan is to blow into a trailer or dumpster. I'm not sure if the airlock is really going to help or not. Once the airlock is in place it'll be a real pain to knock the socks loose too. With cyclone in front, I shouldn't be getting anything but the finest of dust in the baghouse.

I keep meaning to get a tipping hopper to go under there in the meantime, but I keep finding creative ways to piss away money (like Monday I decided I NEEDED a better linebore than $5500....)

[Martin Wasner]

JR, I'm pretty sure you're talking about something like this?

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe, did you have trouble with the Murphy Rodgers baghouse clogging socks? We've got a 20hp unit sitting outside and it's been enough of a problem that I'm kicking around putting a cyclone in front of it. The air to cloth ratio is whacked on mine. The super fine stuff isn't an issue, the shaker does a good job dropping it in the hopper, but the big fluffy chips like off of the panel raiser are pretty much guaranteed to not lay down, and they get stuck in the bags.

To be fair, we're just dropping in the hopper at the moment, then opening a gate to drop into a drum a couple of times a day, which I'm sure allowing the chips to sit in there is contributing to the problem. I've got an airlock that needs to be rebuilt and installed. My long term plan is to blow into a trailer or dumpster. I'm not sure if the airlock is really going to help or not. Once the airlock is in place it'll be a real pain to knock the socks loose too. With cyclone in front, I shouldn't be getting anything but the finest of dust in the baghouse.

I keep meaning to get a tipping hopper to go under there in the meantime, but I keep finding creative ways to piss away money (like Monday I decided I NEEDED a better linebore than $5500....)

Martin,
The MRM 12 was not a bad unit and most of the problems with it were caused by me! From the factory the cloth to air ratio is not great but it works if you keep the bags clean. Our problems started when the electric shaker gear motor went out. They could never come up with a gear motor to match the original and they kept breaking. We ended up shaking manually. Then, I let a DC expert talk me into putting a high efficiency fan and better bags in the unit.That was a huge mistake as the bags then clogged very quickly. At the time we were very busy and had a few guys working. When the DC is down you are down! The Belfab has been OK. The MR was a little cleaner and one of the Belfab transfer fans leaks a little but not a big issue.
If yours has a electric shaker take good care of it. Ours worked loose and that how it broke.

[Darcy Warner]

Joe, did you have trouble with the Murphy Rodgers baghouse clogging socks? We've got a 20hp unit sitting outside and it's been enough of a problem that I'm kicking around putting a cyclone in front of it. The air to cloth ratio is whacked on mine. The super fine stuff isn't an issue, the shaker does a good job dropping it in the hopper, but the big fluffy chips like off of the panel raiser are pretty much guaranteed to not lay down, and they get stuck in the bags.

To be fair, we're just dropping in the hopper at the moment, then opening a gate to drop into a drum a couple of times a day, which I'm sure allowing the chips to sit in there is contributing to the problem. I've got an airlock that needs to be rebuilt and installed. My long term plan is to blow into a trailer or dumpster. I'm not sure if the airlock is really going to help or not. Once the airlock is in place it'll be a real pain to knock the socks loose too. With cyclone in front, I shouldn't be getting anything but the finest of dust in the baghouse.

I keep meaning to get a tipping hopper to go under there in the meantime, but I keep finding creative ways to piss away money (like Monday I decided I NEEDED a better linebore than $5500....)

You really need a cyclone in front of those. The big chips will clog the bags, just like you are saying. They are great for saws, Sanders, and other finer dust, but the chips will hang. Cyclone drop into a hopper, airlock to transfer blower into a semi or the like or just into a small dumpster. Fines can go through your bag house and then return that air to the building.

[J.R. Rutter]

You really need a cyclone in front of those. The big chips will clog the bags, just like you are saying. They are great for saws, Sanders, and other finer dust, but the chips will hang. Cyclone drop into a hopper, airlock to transfer blower into a semi or the like or just into a small dumpster. Fines can go through your bag house and then return that air to the building.

Agree on the cyclone seperator. Next step for us is a rotary air lock on the cyclone hopper. It is brutal to pull the gate manually because the vibration throughout the day causes the dust to settle and bridge in the hopper. So you need a 10 ft stick to get up in there and get everything loose enough to flow out.

[Martin Wasner]

Then, I let a DC expert talk me into putting a high efficiency fan and better bags in the unit.

I get the better fan causing trouble, but I would think better flowing bags would help?

One of the equipment dealers around here was talking about some sort of sock that is similar to Under Armour material that was supposed to be awesome. I keep forgetting to ask him what it was so I could look into it.

[Joe Calhoon]

You would think but it was too much fan. Worked good till the bags clogged. Cyclone first is ideal but the right cloth to fan ratio with a good bag cleaning system works well on bag houses. We don't have trouble with clogging on the Belfab and did not on the MR till we messed with it.

The local cabinet door shop uses a large Dantherm bag house and it works well for them. The Euro shops we tour usually have exotic dust systems with cyclones, bag houses, storage silos, sawdust boilers and VFD controlled all adding up to big bucks. They figure long term with their high energy costs it pays off.