Another newbie, this time with questions about air compressors.

[Robyn Hawkins]

Hi there

I am new to woodworking - turning, inlay work, boxes both bandsaw and turned. My new lathe, a Nova DVR Saturn arrives next week along with the bandsaw, so its time to get the "shop" really the single car garage, ready to use with power, ease of access and the compressor.

I would really like some guidance with the compressor as I know nothing about except that I have used one to run a nail gun a couple of times on a deck build.

My setup is that I am using the garage for the storing of wood, the lathe, bandsaw, table saw, router, planer/thicknesser and the drum sander at all in the garage where I plan to do all the cutting whether by hand or machine, sanding, turning etc and the assembling of large items.

I will use my spare room in the house for assembly of my boxes (small ones), glue and clamping, cutting and preparation including softening off veneers and vacuum pressing.

I need a compressor line i the garage to run the Mirka ROS and the nail/staple guns. I need the compressor line in the spare room for the vacuum press and for blowing the wood dust from any surface to be veneered or for epoxy. I intend to make a vacuum pressing table and run a

These are the specs for the compressor: Tank Capacity: 22L, Power: 1250Watts / 1.25kW, Max Outlet Pressure: 115psi / 8 bar, Built-In Regulator for Adjustable Outlet Pressure, Exhaust Flow: 87 Litres per Minute / 3.07CFM, Displacement: 236L/Min
Motor RPM: 2850 R/Min, Motor Rating: 2HP, Current: 6.5A, Noise Volume: 72dB, Tank Drain Tap, Tank Pressure Gauge, Outlet Pressure Gauge. Outlet Connection: Nitto Quick Release Coupler, Built-In Circuit Overload Protection - Push Button Reset Switch. Standard 240V 50Hz 10A Single Phase NZ Plug Will this be sufficient to run this vacuum system? The vacuum specs are: Pro VM2FS $585 (vacuum source only

• .75 - 1 H.P. Compressor, 2

• C.F.M @ 85 P.S.I.

• 1.6 C.F.M of Vacuum Flow. Finally, is there any issue with having a "T" joint (I don't know the technical name!) taking 1 length of compressor tube to the garage and one to the spare room. I think I would need something like a tape to turn the flow on or off for each side. Would there be any problems with a system that has part of its output blocked? Would it be too loud to have it running inside a house? What kind of piping should I use to deliver the air to the various places I need it? Would PVC be enough? Or would I need something like copper? Is there any fire risk from using the compressor inside? Are there any issues that I have not mentioned? Any and all sensible thoughts aew welcome, Thanks

[Mike Cutler]

What are the CFM, or L/min requirement of your sander(s)? The compressor specs you listed will not run any of the sanders on Mirko's website. The compressor will run the nail guns, on a limited basis, but if you get going really fast, it won't keep up.
You will need a fairly large compressor to run a pneumatic sander for any appreciable length of time. Mirko's current line of pneumatic sanders are all running in the 15-18CFM range, or 475 to 515 l/min. The compressor you need will probably be a minimum, 5hp, upright compressor, with a 60, or 80 gallon tank. Sanders take a lot of air.
It may cheaper and easier for you to get an electric Mirko sander and run the rest of the stuff off a smaller compressor. You're other needs could be met with a small portable compressor.

[Charles Lent]

I agree with Mike, but also suggest that you buy an electric vacuum pump. Venturi vacuum units are also heavy compressed air users. You could spend upwards of $1000 on a big air compressor, or just buy electric powered sanders and an electric vacuum pump

Charley

[Carroll Courtney]

To me,when it comes to air compressors size does matter but budget limits myself.Get the best,biggest your budget will allow.As your wwing grows so will your air needs(if you ever get into spray finishing).If I had a do over,I would have mounted mine outside in its own little shed to cut down on the noise.I would run 3/4 black pipe(sensitive subject) to every where I though I would need air and make arrangements for future growth.If you do it right the first time you will never have to mess with it again,more time for wwing
Off the wall thoughts:You know all these companys that manufacture air compressors figures out how to try and make them cheaper but not alot of time spent on trying to make them better.What I'm saying is instead of having a monster pump/motor to make 22cfms maybe do the same thing with smaller motor and pump.I purchase my first air compressor back in the early 70's but the design is the same today.Yes I know they now make a screw compressors but who can affored that.

[Jim Becker]

Tools like sanders require substantial compressors to support the SCFM they require. Small compressors are great for pneumatic nail guns and general compressed air needs, but not much more. Mid-size can add finish spraying capability. Sanders? You need a big-butt, major league compressor to run those!

[John K Jordan]

RapidAir sells kits and components to plumb compressed air through a building. I used their 1/2" plastic pipe and fittings to put eight compessed air outlets in my shop. I don't think the RapidAir kits work with vacuum.

PVC is not recommended for compressed air due to the potential hazard of it shattering after it ages and perhaps bumped. There are many stories of such incidents, some here on SMC. PVC is supposed to be fine for distributing vacuum since the pressures are low compared to shop compressed air. Recommended for compressed air is copper and black iron pipe.

You can put as many "t"s in the line as you want. One good practice is to make a big loop for you air line and add drops as needed - this lets air come from both directions to effectively increase your piping size.

I built a sound-insulated closet to house my air compressor and cyclone dust collector. They are both 5hp and very LOUD.

I use the 1/2" RapidAir piping to run random orbital sanders, at the lathe, nail guns, outside when shearing llamas, for various metal-working tasks, and to drive powerful impact wrenches when working on the tractor and bobcat. I personally think it's best to get a larger tank and bigger motor if possible - it's hard to tell from the specs on any compressor how long you can use it with a specific tool in practice until you have to wait until it builds up pressure. The 60-gal 5hp compressor is basically "use it for anything and never have to wait on it". When using pancake compressors around the farm I do a lot of waiting.

I wonder if the horsepower ratings for the compressor you mention are inflated. Some manufacturer's lie outright, some use trickery. This chart: http://www.sprecherschuh.com/downloa...chart_v206.pdf Just be careful to get what you pay for!

I don't understand from your description - is the VM2FS both a compressor and vacuum pump? I'd go with a separate vacuum pump. If you haven't seen it the Joe Woodworker site has kits, plans, vacuum pumps, and vacuum presses and clamps - this is about building the vacuum source: https://www.veneersupplies.com/produ...Press-Kit.html I have one of these in progress, but slowly!

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I missed the question about PVC...nope. Not what you want for compressed air. I used copper, but would consider the RapidAir type system John mentions if I were doing things "today".

[Bill Dufour]

A compressor that can run a air sander will probably need to be two stage to keep up.
Bill

[John K Jordan]

A compressor that can run a air sander will probably need to be two stage to keep up.
Bill

That's a good point. My compressor is two stage but I didn't think about how that might be a reason it keeps up with air use.

Another big air load at my shop (outside) is a big air nozzle made to blow dust out of equipment radiators, so powerful it's hard to hold. It keeps up with that too.

JKJ

[Bill Dufour]

My understanding is a two stage is needed if you want over 90 PSI at full flow. The first stage goes to about 50PSi then the other cylinder take sit to the higher pressure. If you only need 50 PSI or less a single stage pump may be more efficient.
Watch out for horsepower claims. Sears lost a lawsuit years ago for claiming too much power. Most modern big box compressor motor nameplates do not list HP. Check the amps and volts to estimate HP. A 120 volt motor is limited to about 1.5 hp. Similar limit for a oil-less compressor.
So you need a 240 volt, 2 stage compressor to supply a sander is a good rule of thumb.
I bought a rebuilt Quincy 2 cylinder 2 stage pump for $200 on craigs list. The pump weighs more then most box store compressors/motor/tank setups. I run it with a real 5hp motor and the rpm is low enough to not be obnoxious. The fly wheel weighs 30 pounds by itself! I know because I could not lift the pump to the top of the 60 gallon tank with the flywheel attached. With the flywheel off I could just lift it in several stages by myself. If I ever have to take it down I will have to rig it somehow. Not really any room for two people in the shop corner where it sits. I really wish,now, that I had taken the time to mount the pump and motor separately on the ground.
Bill

[Mike Cutler]

A compressor that can run a air sander will probably need to be two stage to keep up.
Bill

Bill

A lot of traditional pneumatic tools are going the way of corded and batteries now. Used to be, you constantly heard the whirr of pneumatic wrenches in a garage, now it's going to battery.
The sander still seems to be a holdout. They make them, but folks still like pneumatic sanders.
Small pneumatic die grinders seem to still work better to me. I also have some small pneumatic angle drills and ratchets that can save ya' big time for special work.

[Bill Dufour]

I think a pneumatic sander is a lot lighter and cooler running then electric. Most universal motors do not really like to run 100% of the time or they get too hot to hold. The lighter weight is a good thing for sanding anything that does not lay flat down on a workbench.
I have a 9" Mikata angle grinder, electric, and just to pick it up off the ground is a handful.
Bill

[David Kumm]

You can go up to about 100 psi with a good single stage but the tank empties much more quickly than if filled to 150 with a two stage. A 5 hp 15-18 cfm compressor will just handle a Dynabrade but even the two stage will run enough that a dryer is needed when the weather is humid. A large tank and slow use allows the air to cool in the tank and drop the water out. You need to purge the tank fairly often but you can get away with it most of the time. A large pump running slow ( 600-900 rpm ) is also a key to both quiet and cooler air. Any pump running over 1000 rpm will make your head hurt until it blows up. The old high end cast iron pumps are pretty cheap and easy to rehab. You can get a used Quincy QR or under $1000. New they are well over 5K. Dave