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Thread: New Workshop - Need lots of good advice

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Alan, the one thing that I've clearly learned over the past few years and recently put into action is the concept of "open space" is a good thing as it brings flexibility to the shop. I don't really see much of that in your diagrams. I've purposely created a larger open space in my shop that I can use for assembly, finishing and material support while milling and at whatever heights are appropriate for the particular function. The other thing is work flow. TS, J and P are all very closely related so having them nearby each other so you can move between them efficiently with less "material relocation" is a good thing. That's a little easier in my shop because I use a J/P combo, but certainly doable with discrete machines, too. You have a relatively large shop space so perhaps you can keep the "machining" in one area and the "building" and hand work in another through grouping. Yes, there are some tools that will need to live in other areas, but in general, that kind of configuration can be advantageous.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #62
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    Jan 2010
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    Jim:

    Agreed. There isn't much open space. For better or worse, the industrial grade equipment I have ordered all have large footprints. The good news is that I assume they will perform extremely well. The bad news is the large footprints and their need to remain relatively or absolutely stationary (The Felder reps really weren't warm and fuzzy about me moving their machines around the shop).

    Additionally, I do need to leave some room to be able to bring heavy large things into the shop and place them under the bridge crane / hoist to be repositioned, or placed overhead in storage areas. I've set aside the area outside the finishing room for that area. I can keep that area flexible for assembly, and if I choose the smaller drum sander I can roll that out of the way. But the other large equipment, once placed in their final positions, will have to stay put.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bel Air, MD
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    Alan, I don’t know how much thought you have put into soundproofing your new shop. My shop in under the main section of my house. I’m in my shop full time and work some really crazy hours so I built my shop like a theater room with soundproofing all around. If you turn everything else in the house off you can just barely hear my dust collector but that is it. It wasn’t that expensive to do and fairly simple as long as it is done during the initial set up phase.
    Diamanwoodcrafters

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Diaman View Post
    Alan, I don’t know how much thought you have put into soundproofing your new shop. My shop in under the main section of my house. I’m in my shop full time and work some really crazy hours so I built my shop like a theater room with soundproofing all around. If you turn everything else in the house off you can just barely hear my dust collector but that is it. It wasn’t that expensive to do and fairly simple as long as it is done during the initial set up phase.
    Dave:

    I'm also very cognizant about both transmitting noise upstairs to the house, as well as bothering my neighbors. The explosion proof fan for the finishing room is loud, so that will be addressed outside the house.

    The cyclone and air compressor are also very loud. I'm going to use a sound attenuating air intake on the cyclone room, and soundproofing it best I can. It's a small room, which may make that challenging, but it's important to me.

    The storage area on the top 5 feet of the workshop should help a lot with that. There will be lots of overhead cabinetry, which should attenuate the sound significantly. Having 17 foot tall ceilings, with a metal top under a masonry floor really helps here.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
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    I have read that a lot of air compressor noise is actually the air intake. People add motorcycle mufflers to the intake to help quiet things down. I added a old oil bath air filter to mine. I think it removed the high pitch whistle sound. I figure the oil can't hurt the valves and rings.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bel Air, MD
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    What you will want to do is use Safe and Sound rock wool insulation between the shop and house. Then add resilient channel with 5/8” drywall attached to that. Those three things are the most cost effective ways to soundproof. Along with those things make sure you seal any air gaps that sound could travel through. For the compressor/dust collector room the same thing with 5/8 drywall on both sides will do the trick along with a baffle for your air return. Oddly enough my house was built with the basement as a shop so I have compressed air and 6” ventilation lines built into the foundation which has been a huge help for noise and ventilation. My air compressor sits I’m my garage and branches out through the foundation to the house, Shop and greenhouse. One other thing that made a big difference is I have something of a sound lock between my house and shop. I have two 1 3/4” solid core doors with gaskets around them. One is at the bottom of the stairs and the other at the top. This creates something of a dust barrier too. The door that exits to my spray booth, wood storage and outside are just standard steel doors. Not much sound so goes out that way. We have a fairly large lot for our area so none of the houses around can hear anything when I’m working unless I open all the windows and doors. I also have my shop heating and cooling system completely isolated from my house. This allows me to control the humidity as well as it keeps any fumes from finishes and dust out of the house.
    Diamanwoodcrafters

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Diaman View Post
    What you will want to do is use Safe and Sound rock wool insulation between the shop and house. Then add resilient channel with 5/8” drywall attached to that. Those three things are the most cost effective ways to soundproof. Along with those things make sure you seal any air gaps that sound could travel through. For the compressor/dust collector room the same thing with 5/8 drywall on both sides will do the trick along with a baffle for your air return. Oddly enough my house was built with the basement as a shop so I have compressed air and 6” ventilation lines built into the foundation which has been a huge help for noise and ventilation. My air compressor sits I’m my garage and branches out through the foundation to the house, Shop and greenhouse. One other thing that made a big difference is I have something of a sound lock between my house and shop. I have two 1 3/4” solid core doors with gaskets around them. One is at the bottom of the stairs and the other at the top. This creates something of a dust barrier too. The door that exits to my spray booth, wood storage and outside are just standard steel doors. Not much sound so goes out that way. We have a fairly large lot for our area so none of the houses around can hear anything when I’m working unless I open all the windows and doors. I also have my shop heating and cooling system completely isolated from my house. This allows me to control the humidity as well as it keeps any fumes from finishes and dust out of the house.
    Dave:

    Thanks, I'll look into that. There are limited walls to be constructed. Most are pre-existing cinderblock walls. Perhaps some insulation can be poured into them. The Safe and Sound Roxul can be put in the wall being constructed between the shop and garage. Thanks for that information.

    Sound through the stairwells should be minimal at best. There are two separate landings, so sound would have to bounce around like crazy, after first going through two walls, and two doors. Should be a non-issue.

    What sound can transmit through the metal clad cinder block ceiling will be interesting to find out. Time will tell. I'll get every bit of sound insulation I can in the cyclone room. I'll get the most bang for the buck there. Not sure what I'll do about the air compressor yet.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  8. #68
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    Jan 2010
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    Ok, playing with scissors, paper, xerox machines, scanners, etc...

    Here's a total of four layouts I've come up with. Please let me know which one you all like, and why.

    Thanks.

    Workshop Layout v1 23 Nov 17.jpg
    Workshop Layout v2 23 Nov 17.jpg
    Tentative Shop Layout 3.jpg
    Tentative Shop Layout 4.jpg
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 11-23-2017 at 10:24 PM.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  9. #69
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    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bel Air, MD
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    111
    Alan, the insulation, resilient channel and 5/8 drywall are on my ceiling. The walls are block and under ground so that isn’t an issue. I will say that two sheets of 3/4” plywood and 3/4” of oak flooring might as well have been paper. Before I put in the soundproofing you could hear everything in the main area of the house as if it was in the room with you. The sound transmitted right through the floor. Once you start making noise your problem areas will show up fast.
    Diamanwoodcrafters

  10. #70
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    Jan 2010
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    OK. it's been a while, but seriously back to work on the workshop.

    The house renovation above took a year to do (want to kill the architect), but came out stunning. So good news there.

    I've made a number of changes to the workshop / plans / equipment. Saved a bunch of money, and sadly gave up on a few cool things.

    First of all:

    1.) No bridge crane. The quotes were just insane. It would have been so cool, but just isn't going to happen. I am going to have 2 or 3 fixed overhead hoists installed, and may put a jib crane outside the door to the shop for reasons I'll explain in a minute.

    2.) I'm having metal / concrete access floor tiles installed 18" off the floor (raising the floor 18" to put ducting and (wink wink, nod nod) electrical under the floor. This will enable easy routing of dust collection ducts, even the big ones to any location needed, and I won't have them overhead (which I hate, and would need to be suspended from 17 ft high ceilings. The floor is rated for more than the weight I'll need (heaviest machine is 1200 lbs).

    3.) I will have a finishing room, using my explosion-proof fan to exhaust the air/finish.

    4.) 3-phase power will be created using a Phase Perfect 10HP phase converter. That should supply sufficient / correct electricity to my Felder 3-phase FB710 bandsaw, Felder A941 Jointer, and Felder D953 Planer.

    5.) A massive solar array was installed on the house (30kW peak). I presently have negative electric bills. My local utility were absolute *&*holes regarding them trying hard to have me not install it (they lose serious money by not being able to bill me for electricity, much less having to pay for the surplus), but I eventually got it done.

    6.) I'll have a Mitsubishi mini-split AC unit / heater installed. I'll love that, considering the heat and humidity down here. They are amazingly efficient, which is nice too.

    7.) No generator for now, but eventually might put in a small battery backup for emergencies. Since my bills are negative, there aren't any scenarios where that will pay for itself, but having power in a blackout would be pretty awesome.

    8.) The jib crane is for lifting heavy materials up the 18" onto a platform where the double entry doors to the shop are. I will likely add a ramp also, but that 18" height to lift everything will be an issue. Certainly to get the big equipment up. I'm having issues finding a reasonable ramp that will be easy to wheel stuff up, especially with the small wheels on my pallet jack. Anyone know a good one? Something that can be stored when not used would be awesome. Right now I'm looking at Roll-a-Ramps. https://www.rollaramp.com/wp-content...TABLE_RAMP.pdf

    So, flooring in a couple of weeks, then cabinetry, electrical, HVAC, and eventually a few walls and doors.

    I'll post the latest drawing of the space with equipment a little later. Still a little cramped, but I'm getting some pretty great stuff in there.

    Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated, as always.
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 01-12-2019 at 8:56 AM.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  11. #71
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    Jan 2010
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    OK, here's the latest plans:

    Workshop-Plans---Cropped-4-Jan-19-for-web.jpg

    I'd love any suggestions.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cedar Park, TX (NW Austin)
    Posts
    321
    I have ten now but had eleven at another house. I really liked 11 but I really hate feeling remotely cramped or confined. If you are not planning on going up stairs often you might consider going 11' and 5.5.' Eleven feet would allow some nice vertical lumber storage on the lower level.

    Having grown up in Florida I understand your concerns about cooling. We put this fan on our back porch and it moves almost double the amount of air of most ceiling fans -- enough to keep the flies and mosquitoes away. https://www.lampsplus.com/products/60-inch-turbina-brushed-steel-ceiling-fan__r4144.html

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    176
    Any more suggestions for "mini shop" - .i.e. 100-150 sq.ft. ???

  14. #74
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    Jan 2010
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    OK. The large Oneida cyclone was put in a closet and raised up so that I can remove the sawdust / chips from the bin. Pretty rough task. I mounted two hooks and used two ratcheting straps to alternately raise one side, then the other to lift all 4 legs up onto 3 2x4's. Pretty scary at times, but I got it done.

    The 18" raised floor goes in on Monday. That should be fascinating. The ability to run all the ducts and wire under the floor should make for a very neat installation. I can't wait.
    If you drive at the speed of light, do your headlights work? - Steven Wright

    If a man points at the moon, an idiot will look at the finger.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    I remember putting mine up in the closet, Alan. Raising up that heavy thing (even in pieces) in a tight space was "no fun"!!! 'Glad you got this step completed!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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